Petition - repeal IR35

[malvolio]

What you don't see is the invisible work. There have been several consultation aimed at totally wrekcing our market and how we work that have been stopped by a combination of groups such as the PCG, CIOT and others. IR35 happened because (a) the current consultation processes weren't really in place and (b) there was nobody to argue against it; I didn't see FSB shouting in 1999, for example.

And even if you do take out IR35, there's still a host of issues ranging from agency behaviours to onshoring and even taxation: you can be absolutely damn certain that whoever is in charge they will be trying to stiff us with differential taxation levels somehow.

And it's £120 a year, btw...

[KentPhilip]

Bollocks. Theyre a bit bigger than IR35 these days; ther'll still be a need for someone to speak up for the freelancers of this country.

Well they've tried to do a value-add on top of IR35 for sure.
But before IR35 there was no need for a freelancer's 'union'. I certainly don't remember wishing for one at the time.

[swamp]

Bollocks. Theyre a bit bigger than IR35 these days; ther'll still be a need for someone to speak up for the freelancers of this country.

True, but contractors won't be paying £250 a year for them. The PCG would struggle to get £10 a head.

Why should I pay anything to support our 'trade body' when others like you can do it for me?!

[malvolio]

The PCG would go out of business if IR35 is repealed.

Bollocks. Theyre a bit bigger than IR35 these days; ther'll still be a need for someone to speak up for the freelancers of this country.

As regards the petition, yes it's waste of time. If I may quote something I said in another thread:

there is already a lot of work going into sorting the IR35 conundrum and has been for a while now. If anything gets it removed, it will be by negotiation and debate, not outright demands for its removal.

And all I was saying was that the Petition website is an NL beast, they don't take any notice of it and nor will anyone else. Take a look at the top 10 by signatory (and ignore the 65k asking that Gay Gordon resigns): all worthy causes but how many of them have had any effect?

It might not be nice, but it's reality. Some people need to learn to live with it.

[swamp]

The PCG would go out of business if IR35 is repealed.

[OwlHoot]

The BN66 camp have started the ball rolling. If we can get some momentum behind this then I will start promoting it more widely.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/repealofIR35

A few people have said they won't sign because

a) It won't make a blind bit of difference
Probably not but where is the harm in trying? The early day motion probably won't achieve much either.

I don't know how many freelancers/contractors there are in this country but if a significant proportion signed I bet it would cause a few ripples. Some people have claimed that IR35 is a vote winner, so why don't we try and prove it?

It is a vote winner - from the standpoint of envious permies.

b) HMRC could use the signatures to target people for investigation
I think this is highly unlikely, especially if many people sign. The only details which are made public are your first and last name, and there is nothing stopping you just using your initials if you are worried about this.

E-Petitions Privacy Policy:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/privacy

c) The Government might, no *would*, replace it with something much harder to dodge.

I'm not signing, and I think whoever started this petition is a mug.

[DaveB]

While I do think repealing IR35 is a good idea, right now it's not actually much of an issue. The legislation as it stands, while flawed, is at least understood by those who have to work around it and defending an "outside IR35" position is relatively straight forward based on the number of successfull prosecutions HMRC have managed so far.

I would concentrate your efforts on BN66 until that is resolved and avoid being distracted by trying to do too much at once.

IR35 will still be there once BN66 is resolved, one way or another.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

That is one of the best-written petitions I've seen on there.

I take no credit for it because I pinched the wording from this one:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go/

They rejected an earlier one I submitted because they said the wording was incomprehensible. I figured I couldn't go wrong copying the "Gordo resign" one.

[thunderlizard]

That is one of the best-written petitions I've seen on there.

[BrilloPad]

Signed

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The BN66 camp have started the ball rolling. If we can get some momentum behind this then I will start promoting it more widely.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/repealofIR35

A few people have said they won't sign because

a) It won't make a blind bit of difference
Probably not but where is the harm in trying? The early day motion probably won't achieve much either.

I don't know how many freelancers/contractors there are in this country but if a significant proportion signed I bet it would cause a few ripples. Some people have claimed that IR35 is a vote winner, so why don't we try and prove it?

b) HMRC could use the signatures to target people for investigation
I think this is highly unlikely, especially if many people sign. The only details which are made public are your first and last name, and there is nothing stopping you just using your initials if you are worried about this.

E-Petitions Privacy Policy:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/privacy