Reply to: Would you drive an electric car ?

[TykeMerc]

Apart from that, there was a documentary I remember seeing on Discovery, Nat Geo or some such where scientists were not impressed with the electric car technology as you actually burn more fuel chaarging the damn battery than you would need to get the car the same distance on a single charge, i.e. negative entropy.

That's the classic issue with any kind of electric battery cars, the transmission losses over distance including transformers and cable resistance (even at higely stepped up voltage and minisule current) are significant and there's no such thing as a 100% (60% is optimistic) efficient energy transfer system from a battery to kinetic energy in drive terms.

For the non engineers/scientists efficiency is a measure of the amount of power out compared to that put in and it's a matter of lies, damn lies and statistics where you decide how much energy is put in in the first place. In the case of electricity generation do you just measure the power to charge the batteries, or the energy consumed at the power station to generate that electricity, or the energy required to get the fuel to the station or the energy required to build the station, the equations are complex and a matter of politics rather than science when it comes to the reporting.
The same goes for refined fuels (petrol, LPG and diesel), how much of the energy lost in the extraction, transport, refinement and sale is included in the efficiency figures is again a political matter.

There's a similar argument when it comes to pollutants, for instance the muck that's created in the creation of a catalytic converter is arguably worse than that that cleaned up by the converter in operation although that muck is obviously localised.

As Blighty Boy pointed out alternative fueled vehicles only become viable when the fuel is available and the technology is matured enough to be cost effective, performance has already been tackled and isn't an issue.

[BlightyBoy]

Fuel Cell

BMW are currently developing a Mini running with a fuel cell.

Performance is comparable to a standard Mini, and range is also pretty impressive. Sorry, no Linky, I read this in a motoring magazine at my doctor's surgery

Down-sides are that the fuel cell has a quite limited lifetime and costs almost twice as much as the car itself. Also there are (so the report read) currently only four places in Germany where you can refuel your cell (one being Linde Gas in Munich). Unfortunately, the other places are further away than the range of the car would allow you to travel!

Apart from that, there was a documentary I remember seeing on Discovery, Nat Geo or some such where scientists were not impressed with the electric car technology as you actually burn more fuel chaarging the damn battery than you would need to get the car the same distance on a single charge, i.e. negative entropy.

I too would only consider a Hydrogen vehicle, but only when the infrastructure is suitable to allow longer journeys, i.e. more refuelling stations.

[TykeMerc]

To be realistic, until a Back to the Future Mr Fusion device design exists, fuel cell technology is the only way forwards as an alternative to internal combustion.

The refuel time is minutes instead of hours, hydrogen is abundant and of course not lost in the combustion, power stations already have abundant water supplies and it wouldn't take much doing to construct electrolysis plants at power stations to reduce the losses from transmission. It's also possible to produce hydrogen via algae bioreactors although that technology is in its infancy.

Electric cars which are powered by rechargabe batteries and domestic electricity simply can't fill the niche occupied by the internal combustion engine due to the range and refueling issues we all know about.

[Moscow Mule]

One of wife's friends has one for dropping kids off at school, local shops etc. They also have a big Audi & a Land Rover.

I would definitely have one as a run-around but they aren't ready to be used as an only car yet.

I'd quite like a go in a Tesla - they look promising...

[d000hg]

TopGear did a piece on electric cars and were pretty impressed by one model, but you can't get away from the batteries' weight and charge-time really.

They were far more interested in fuel-cell technology which generates electricity from fuel in your tank without burning it. Hydrogen is the main candidate, you react hydrogen with oxygen to generate electricity and water vapour.

On the other hand, fuel-cells have been "just around the corner" for a decade if not more, I'm slightly skeptical they may fall in the same category as fusion power stations. But from my viewpoint as a scientist, it's a very interesting technology.

[BoredBloke]

Besides the fact that they take hours to recharge, where is all this extra electricity going to come from? I thought we were going to struggle to meet our current electricity demands given the age and state of our power stations - how will they cope if everybody starts using these new electric invalid cars?

[thelace]

I thought the Honda Clarity was the way forward....

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Certainly a better bet than the golf carts currently being developed.

For my daily grind, I'd have to recharge it at home overnight, then recharge it again at work!

[Mustang]

We'll see about that

there will come a point when you will refuse to pay HMG any more for the pleasure of driving a fossil fuel car

At that point I will emmigrate - wont be forced into it........!!

[BoredBloke]

Yes, when...

• They can do 100mph
• go 350 miles before recharging the batteries
• and it takes only 2 minutes to recharge the batteries
• and they don't look like they've been taken from Buck Rogers....

...actually, driving a Buck Rogers type car would be kinda cool....

I'd rather be 'driving' Wilma.....Erin Gray in those tight suits!!

[gingerjedi]

WHS

Bottom line for me is: yes, I will buy one when they can compete with current cars in terms of looks, performance, price, cost of "fuel", time between "fill ups" and "fill up" time. The Chevy Volt is getting closer to this.

At the moment they cant but I am sure one day they will. I certainly wont be forced into buying one by the Government. Who wants to live in a country where the Government dictate that to you - maybe George Orwell had it right.......!!

BTW, anyone thought about how this electicity to charge them is being produced.........!!

We'll see about that, we already pay 70% fuel duty and extortionate road tax.

With the long term trend of ever increasing costs there will come a point when you will refuse to pay HMG any more for the pleasure of driving a fossil fuel car and you will have to give in, they say that is the intention but they will only tax something else to make up for the massive shortfall in revenue.

[BrianSnail]

I left it at Ohm

With your coat?

[EternalOptimist]

Where is the poll?

I left it at Ohm

[Francko]

Would you drive an electric car ?


I wouldn't

Where is the poll?

[Mustang]

Yes, when...

• They can do 100mph
• go 350 miles before recharging the batteries
• and it takes only 2 minutes to recharge the batteries
• and they don't look like they've been taken from Buck Rogers....

WHS

Bottom line for me is: yes, I will buy one when they can compete with current cars in terms of looks, performance, price, cost of "fuel", time between "fill ups" and "fill up" time. The Chevy Volt is getting closer to this.

At the moment they cant but I am sure one day they will. I certainly wont be forced into buying one by the Government. Who wants to live in a country where the Government dictate that to you - maybe George Orwell had it right.......!!

BTW, anyone thought about how this electicity to charge them is being produced.........!!

[DocP]

For short city journeys they are fine (90% of my travel). Would still need a petrol car for long trips.