Reply to: I back this strike !!

[Cyberman]

It's gonna really kick-off when people realise that all of the Nuclear Power station building, which is absolutely decades of work, has been outsourced to the Poles via the french company, and that they are not hiring any British workers either !!!

[DodgyAgent]

No, I said that we can't know what will be succesful. All we really know is what hasn't worked in the past, and protectionism is one of those ideas that's failed. Better to try something that might be succesful than something which we know will fail.

The difference now is that the jobs are being protected by the Italians from the locals.

[DodgyAgent]

The reason the Italians have got the jobs is because they were the first to put their hands up

[Fred Bloggs]

OK here's some more info- The erection contract was subbed by Jacobs Engineering (an American EPC company with offices in Reading, Manchester, Glasgow etc) to the Italian company IREM. Some of the design work for this job was done in Manchester, I turned down a gig on the project over a year ago. It is normal for an EPC company to do this. I would think that due to site union agreements, the Italian workers will be paid the same fixed union agreed rate for erection work. I'm not sure but I would think that Welders, Fitters, Riggers etc.. will probably be getting about £8 to £10 per hour, same as UK workers would get. On Humberside, as in many industrial regions of the UK, there is a very large pool of blokes who work on contracts like this because the former big employers in these areas, ship building, coal mines, steel works, chemical co's etc.. have all either disappeared or downsized substantially over the years leaving behind a very large pool of skilled casual workers. Notice how all the blokes on strike on the telly are in their 50's or 60's? Bearing in mind these blokes probably get about 6 months a year work if they're lucky and survive on pathetic wages as skilled men, is it surprising they are on strike? I share a common background with those blokes, I came through the same industries and I'm lucky because I got on my bike and studied to be a process engineer rather than stay as a fitter. If I was a fitter still, I'd be stood outside the gates with them.

[ratewhore]

A bit of a straw man argument, but go ahead.

Eh?

[Mich the Tester]

Yeah. What of it?

A bit of a straw man argument, but go ahead.

[ratewhore]

So someone who sees large economic differences between northern and southern Italy is a northern league stooge?

Yeah. What of it?

[Cyberman]

No, I said that we can't know what will be succesful. All we really know is what hasn't worked in the past, and protectionism is one of those ideas that's failed. Better to try something that might be succesful than something which we know will fail.

Personally, I believe a certain amount of protectionism can be justified when we are looking at 3.4 million unemployed in a worldwide recession. Free markets in boom times is fine but to keep the borders open and allow in 150,000 foreign workers this year seems pretty stupid and will no doubt help to lose Labour the election in 2010 !!

[Mich the Tester]

You are a Northern League stooge and I claim my ten million Lira note...

So someone who sees large economic differences between northern and southern Italy is a northern league stooge?

[Mich the Tester]

Erm, didn't you say earlier you didn't know what would happen?

No, I said that we can't know what will be succesful. All we really know is what hasn't worked in the past, and protectionism is one of those ideas that's failed. Better to try something that might be succesful than something which we know will fail.

[ratewhore]

Erm, yes. Take a look at the regions around Milan, Turin, Bellinzona and Bologna; you’ll see a hell of a lot of industry. Cars, kitchen appliances, high speed trains, aircraft parts, instrumentation, industrial machines, trucks, tractors, motorcycles, bicycles and all the ancilliary industries that are needed by Northern Italian industry. Not exactly workshy. In fact I think you’ll find that Northern Italy is one of the world’s richest and most successful industrial regions. Economic figures in Italy are skewed by the basket case that Italy becomes as soon as you go south of Rome. The north is rich, successful and highly productive. The south is well, the less said about that the better.

You are a Northern League stooge and I claim my ten million Lira note...

[ratewhore]

Go ahead, choose protectionism. See what happens 10 years down the line when the rest of the world has moved on and British business is once again dominated by hard left unions, government cronyism, jobs for the boys and backward, low quality overpriced products.

Erm, didn't you say earlier you didn't know what would happen?

[DodgyAgent]

Because until next week when my rate goes down, they’ve been paying me a tulip load of money in the Netherlands. But thanks for the suggestion, I know that several Italian provinces will shortly be renewing their emergency services telco systems, and seeing as I have a lot of experience in that field, and good contacts with the major players in that field, I might just do that.

Justy what is the demand for gear boxes with multiple reverse gears like these days?

[Mich the Tester]

So why dont you f*** off and go and work there?

Because until next week when my rate goes down, they’ve been paying me a tulip load of money in the Netherlands. But thanks for the suggestion, I know that several Italian provinces will shortly be renewing their emergency services telco systems, and seeing as I have a lot of experience in that field, and good contacts with the major players in that field, I might just do that.

[Cyberman]

So why dont you f*** off and go and work there?

Agreed !! My experience is that there are very few jobs open to foreigners in Italy, especially in IT.