Reply to: The death of contracting

[Purple Dalek]

LOL, not really I am not in the Chianti region but they make a wonderful Merlot here (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/tra...90606000&ty=st).

Some small jokes aside, maybe it's only me, but I also joined the contracting wagon because I thought of it as my way of viewing how work and cooperation among individuals should work. We are all small companies, all of equal rights and dues, everybody contributing and taking responsibility for his part, instead of a big brother controlling everything and everyone. No slaves, no masters, everybody is in the same league; surely some people would earn more, other less but the point is that there is no hierarchy, everybody is democratically free. I am sad that it's only me who had this poetic view. I wished in the future everybody would be a contractor but the trend seems to prove me wrong.

No, you're not the only one on this board with that view.

There is at least one poster who has stated they are 'mutualist', and I can think of three others who would say the same if they but knew the name of it.

Do remember though that stating such views is a certain way to get on 'no fly' lists, dropped DV, etc. etc..

[Iron Condor]

Average!



'They' say a contractor's hourly rate, when multiplied by 1000, equates to a permie's annual salary.

31 ph is the current average (median) advertised rate. I would expect actual contractor pay rates (ie those in work) to be higher as advertised rates were higher six to twelve months ago.

Both permie and contract rates were around 40K pa/40 ph at that time. So the x1000 multipler was pretty accurate.

Advertised contract rates have fallen to 31 ph and advertised permie salaries have fallen to 38K.

[mailric]

A lot of clients just don't understand it. They seem unaware of this 3rd option of an actual freelance consultant. This might be due to the agencies phoning them all the time and painting a picture of temporary employees, it might be due to your typical lifetime permie middle management type having a limited amount of experience of actual business. I've also met some contractors who don't understand it either and refer to annual leave and attend employee 'future of the company' meetings. The government don't understand it either, we're just avoiding tax.

In summary, people are stupid. I think there's more stupid people now than there used to be, it's mostly the stupid that breed so we're doomed to drowning in them im afraid.

well said. I agree totally.

[PAH]

But jobstats is showing average rates at 31ph.

Average!



'They' say a contractor's hourly rate, when multiplied by 1000, equates to a permie's annual salary.



No idea who 'they' are, but I hope they're talking out of their arse.

[Doggy Styles]

Just keep you head down, imply the agent takes a very large percentage of what they pay out (which is usually true anyway) and point out that potentially you have a much higher tax burden. Then they can be happy that they don't have the hassle of being a contractor and don't feel quite so useless.

WHS, and when permies bring it up I explain I'm no better off than them, what with my extra expenses of personal pensions, insurance, sick pay, redundancy payouts and holidays that they take for granted...

The way to work is not do what one of the guys who just started where I am did. Wander in bragging about how he just got a payment of £40,000 in his bank account for the last 3 months work, acting as if all the permies are scum, or stupid and generally rubbing everybody up the wrong way.

Does the word c*** fit the bill there? Let's pretend he never finds another contract and is forced to go permy. On a shyte salary. That would cheer you up.

[alreadypacked]

Now it's just about getting a little extra tip at the end of the day. Sorry but that is very disillusioning.

A low rate will do that to you

[ratewhore]

When I started contracting I thought of it as a political revolution, as the masses freed from the oppressors and the stinky capitalist who will drown because of profits being equally redistributed about workers, about freedom of mind and from belongings to group and social categories.

FREEDOM FOR TOOTING!!

[ace00]

There does seem to be a recent collapse in rates, 2nd line network support is now paid what 20-25 p/h? Junior PM at 200-250 a day. About 33% drop, recently.

[Shimano105]

Actually I see rates falling. My peak was 2001, then there was a dip 2002-3, then a rise followed by a plateau.

Now the rates seem to be going down all the time to the point where I'm beginning to wonder if it is actually worth it, especially as I seem to have to do the agency runaround every 3 months

[Iron Condor]

All they want is permies with a shorter notice and a slightly higher premium to pay for this flexibility.

And the premium seems to be getting smaller as every year passes.

Permies nearly always get an inflationary pay rise every year.
Contract rates have been stagnant over the last 10 years and never made it past the 2000 peak.

The hey day for contracting was definitely mid to late 90s. You could buy a 3 bed semi with a years turnover. If house prices collapse and rates dont then maybe we see those days again. But jobstats is showing average rates at 31ph. Which is down about 20% since last year.

[Dark Black]

++1

++2

[Pondlife]

Must agree with that. I find that bragging about the money you bring in as a contractor tends to sour relationships with the client co.

Managers get upset you that from their understanding you earn as much as them (if not more which is more usual), other permies get upset that you earn way in excess of what they do, etc.

Just keep you head down, imply the agent takes a very large percentage of what they pay out (which is usually true anyway) and point out that potentially you have a much higher tax burden. Then they can be happy that they don't have the hassle of being a contractor and don't feel quite so useless.
The way to work is not do what one of the guys who just started where I am did. Wander in bragging about how he just got a payment of £40,000 in his bank account for the last 3 months work, acting as if all the permies are scum, or stupid and generally rubbing everybody up the wrong way.

Chances of him getting an extension........

++1

[Ardesco]

I keep quiet about this stuff - it wouldn't take too much to persuade a manky government to change the rules. I also don't feel the need to brag to the permies - they are miserable enough already, and I don't want them thinking they could all be contractors.

Must agree with that. I find that bragging about the money you bring in as a contractor tends to sour relationships with the client co.

Managers get upset you that from their understanding you earn as much as them (if not more which is more usual), other permies get upset that you earn way in excess of what they do, etc.

Just keep you head down, imply the agent takes a very large percentage of what they pay out (which is usually true anyway) and point out that potentially you have a much higher tax burden. Then they can be happy that they don't have the hassle of being a contractor and don't feel quite so useless.

The way to work is not do what one of the guys who just started where I am did. Wander in bragging about how he just got a payment of £40,000 in his bank account for the last 3 months work, acting as if all the permies are scum, or stupid and generally rubbing everybody up the wrong way.

Chances of him getting an extension........

[ace00]

Well I do mind. When I started contracting I thought of it as a political revolution, as the masses freed from the oppressors and the stinky capitalist who will drown because of profits being equally redistributed about workers, about freedom of mind and from belongings to group and social categories. It was a dream. Now it's just about getting a little extra tip at the end of the day. Sorry but that is very disillusioning.

You're not English are you......

[Archangel]

Some small jokes aside, maybe it's only me, but I also joined the contracting wagon because I thought of it as my way of viewing how work and cooperation among individuals should work. We are all small companies, all of equal rights and dues, everybody contributing and taking responsibility for his part, instead of a big brother controlling everything and everyone. No slaves, no masters, everybody is in the same league; surely some people would earn more, other less but the point is that there is no hierarchy, everybody is democratically free. I am sad that it's only me who had this poetic view. I wished in the future everybody would be a contractor but the trend seems to prove me wrong.

I became a contractor because the money was better.
I went Ltd because the Agency told me to.

Both these things still apply.

No higher motives for me.