Reply to: Todays political post

[sasguru]

Read "Fantasy Island" by Larry Elliot & Dan Atkinson.

I have. Makes the point exactly.

[sasguru]

Thatcher didn't shut it down. She privatised it and because it was all arse it went to the wall or was bought out. Which shows we were subsidising a dead horse.

British manufacturing isn't dead:

First

Second

Third

Forth

Market factors are to blame for the decline in maufacturing, not Thatcher. Link

Yes but they were privatised too fast without being stabilised. The French stabilised Renault with a lot of patience (things were worse there, the MD was assassinated by a left-wing group!). My point is that Thatcher was more interested in teaching bolshie left-wingers a lesson (which of course they needed) rather than looking to the long-term future. And for that reason she fails my test as a great and visionary leader.
As to your examples, yes there are still pockets of excellence in manufacturing in the UK e.g. aerospace, weapons, pharmaceuticals but much less than there should be.
For about 15 years we have been told that manufacturing is not viable for a western country, yet Germany recently had record breaking exports. It seems our leaders are justifying their decision after the event.

[Incognito]

Gosh.

That's up to date... the Ryton factory mentioned there was listed for closure within a couple of months...

I was using that as an example for market factors and how Eastern European and Asian industry could produce a similar item at lower cost.

[Incognito]

So British manufacturing is/was all rubbish and it was a great policy to shut it all down?

Thatcher didn't shut it down. She privatised it and because it was all arse it went to the wall or was bought out. Which shows we were subsidising a dead horse.

British manufacturing isn't dead:

First

Second

Third

Forth

Market factors are to blame for the decline in maufacturing, not Thatcher. Link

[sasguru]

I'm a strong believer in the American health system.

.

It's great provided you have a job with a health plan and/or are well paid. But should you experience any of life's downsides: e.g. unemployment or chronic disease, you're fooked.
It's no surprise that reform of the health system was a big issue in the presidential nomination race.
Having said which the NHS is inefficient and needs reform. It's the only government centrally funded health service of the big countries.
The French (best health system in the world according to WHO) do it better with sensible private-public partnerships.

[Incognito]

Check to see if it covers things like cancer, depression, osteo-arthritis, MS, cardio-vascular problems and any other long term debilitating conditions that may affect your ability to work. Actually, don't bother because I'll tell you now that it doesn't. It covers a bit of queue jumping when you need an instant fix (knee op, dentistry, that sort of thing).

Plus, if you'd broken your ankle in the UK the NHS would have seen you same day (you might have had to wait in the queue for a few hours behind the children and women though).

Because it's all there is in this country, then I would have to use the NHS for anything debilitating. That doesn't mean I think it's worth the money. I'm a strong believer in the American health system.

And to compare my treatment in the states and what I would have got over here. I was involved in an RTA at 16.30. At 19.00 I was under and on the operating table. That was after being taken to the first A+E and having X-Rays and a CT scan and then onto the bigger hospital where the consultant orthopaedic surgeon and team were waiting for me. With the NHS, I think I would still have been sat on a gurney at A+E waiting for an X-Ray.

The speed with which I was operated on and the skill of the surgeon who did the job has saved me from getting AVN (Avascular Necrosis) which means I will most probably make a full recovery. It's indicative of what I think of the NHS that I don't think I could be saying that if the accident happened here in the UK.

[NickFitz]

Taxes normally have to rise at times of recession/low growth to maintain revenue levels. That is why the Tories did at times raise taxes. They did actually lower taxes and put funds in the kitty when times were good.

Aww, diddums

FFS... somebody who thinks politicians are going to make life better for them... the naïveté is breathtaking.

You carry on thinking that they give a tulip about you, if it makes you feel good

[Cyberman]

And for what reason did Major/Lamont/Clarke put up taxes then? The Thatcher government's incompetence?

Taxes normally have to rise at times of recession/low growth to maintain revenue levels. That is why the Tories did at times raise taxes. They did actually lower taxes and put funds in the kitty when times were good.

New Lie have failed to lower taxes or control spending in 11 years, throughout a boom period while also borrowing at astronomical levels.... 24.4 Billion pound in the current quarter !! That is total incompetence and time for them to go before we turn into Zimbabwe MKII.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

......

These are part of the reason why the early Thatcher years also had increased taxation (and borrowing): they were shafted by inheriting a basket case of an economy created by Labour. Earlier difficulties that faced both parties were the result of the Second World War, but latter problems were more down to incompetence of the lefties.

And for what reason did Major/Lamont/Clarke put up taxes then? The Thatcher government's incompetence?

[HairyArsedBloke]

... and more recently, Cameron has stated that he won't rule out tax rises.

Cameron will probably have no choice other than to raise taxes in the unlikely eventuality of forming a government. The mess the finances are in allow for little else. The alternative is to borrow more which has its own set of problems such as driving up interest rates, weakening the currency and staving money from commercial borrowers.

He has also said that they will continue with Labour’s spending plans for the first two years. Labour said that when they took power. This is a bit misleading as, again, they have no choice. Deals have been signed and the penalty payments for cancelling would be as great as going ahead or the prices for further contracts would rise because supplying government would be made more risky.

These are part of the reason why the early Thatcher years also had increased taxation (and borrowing): they were shafted by inheriting a basket case of an economy created by Labour. Earlier difficulties that faced both parties were the result of the Second World War, but latter problems were more down to incompetence of the lefties.

[Cyberman]

... and more recently, Cameron has stated that he won't rule out tax rises.

It would almost be worth having the Tories back just to see all you dimwits screeching when you realise that they're screwing you front, back and sideways, and that was all they ever intended to do

Definitely worth getting the Tories back if only to get excessive borrowing and waste reduced because we will all be better off. Labour still need to raise taxes after 11 years of never-ending tax rises. That is total incompetence.

[NickFitz]

Incidentally, the Tories have said they will make tax cuts at some stage in the next administration

... and more recently, Cameron has stated that he won't rule out tax rises.

It would almost be worth having the Tories back just to see all you dimwits screeching when you realise that they're screwing you front, back and sideways, and that was all they ever intended to do

[Alf W]

I have private insurance and have had for the last 7 years. I was unlucky enough to have suffered a broken ankle in the states where my UK private medical insurance paid for the 20k hospital treatment and operation I received. Worth every penny! Compare that to the treatment I would have received on the NHS

Check to see if it covers things like cancer, depression, osteo-arthritis, MS, cardio-vascular problems and any other long term debilitating conditions that may affect your ability to work. Actually, don't bother because I'll tell you now that it doesn't. It covers a bit of queue jumping when you need an instant fix (knee op, dentistry, that sort of thing).

Plus, if you'd broken your ankle in the UK the NHS would have seen you same day (you might have had to wait in the queue for a few hours behind the children and women though).

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Rolls Royce?

Again, Heath nationalised them because they went into receivership. Rolls Royce plc (The engine makers) are only where they are today because Thatcher privitised them. What were they building prior to '87.

And TVR? please.

So British manufacturing is/was all rubbish and it was a great policy to shut it all down?

[Incognito]

Rolls Royce, TVR, Alvis, bits of BL were good enough to compete with anything the Germans had they were just really badly, managed (and to be fair, plagued by industrial disputes). In any case are you really saying just because we weren't as good we should give up and close it all down? Good job the Germans never took that view. BMW has been close to bust over the years and only survived at all by building Austin 7s under licence.

Rolls Royce?

Again, Heath nationalised them because they went into receivership. Rolls Royce plc (The engine makers) are only where they are today because Thatcher privitised them. What were they building prior to '87.

And TVR? please.