Reply to: VistaPrint scam!

[AtW]

Also, as AtW says, PayPal quite often have a tendency to side with the purchaser against the vendor.

Very much so (SKA Ltd is a Paypal vendor and we also have a proper merchant account with continuous authority), basically with Paypal unless you sell physical items and have proof of postage you are shafted in so far customer claim goes. It's very unfair on merchants who usually get choice of 3 options:

1) I have posted item and can prove it
2) I have not posted item so have to refund
3) I've already refunded customer

If you are not sure and can use Paypal then by all means do - lots of scare stories around Paypal usually revolve around dodgy merchants who got their money frozen (often for good reason). With Paypal merchant isn't just paying all the fees but also takes all the risks.

[TheFaQQer]

On Craig1's solution, would paying via Paypal work too? Think I might check their conditions.

PS Ah no, maybe not:

The thing with PayPal is that setting up a recurring payment is something that you have to explicitly go into the account and do - it's not something that can accidentally happen. When it is set up, you get an email (I think) to confirm that this is what you've signed up to - so the chances of something accidentally getting in there as an accidental payment is slim.

Also, as AtW says, PayPal quite often have a tendency to side with the purchaser against the vendor.

[AtW]

AtW, Have a look at some comments on this - JM is correct, card companies cannot legally always stop subscriptions:

These comments are from 2006.

Debit cards have less protection, but credit cards are pretty protected - getting chargeback against dodgy merchant is very much doable and with enough chargebacks they'll lose their merchant account, especially continuous authority. You will have to jump hoops but it's always like this - I am half tempted to use vistaprint just to prove it but I've got better things to do in life, plus I simply won't be using dodgy services with such bad reviews regardless if they offer something for free.

Both VISA and MasterCard have got chargeback limits and merchants that exceed those have to pay more dosh and can get account cancelled, quiet why VistaPrint isn't disconnected I don't know assuming half the stories about them are correct.

Using paypal with people you don't know for sure is a good idea though - cancellations of subscriptions in it is trivial.

[xoggoth]

Recurring payments here:

The problem with recurring payments and a continuous payment authority

[xoggoth]

On Craig1's solution, would paying via Paypal work too? Think I might check their conditions.

PS Ah no, maybe not:

You will remain liable for all obligations related to your Account even after the Account is closed

AtW, Have a look at some comments on this - JM is correct, card companies cannot legally always stop subscriptions:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....html?t=202892

[AtW]

I've been told that if you agree to auto-rebilling on a credit card, then the only way to cancel it is to get the firm who you have the agreement with (ie the firm who provides the product or service you are paying for) to cancel it.

Who said that? Protection of users of credit cards is very high - merchants get shafted left right and center with users claiming all sort of stuff which results in a chargeback and merchant can't do much about it. High number of chargebacks can result in cancellation of merchant account.

I have not used VistaPrint due to bad stories but I really can't see how they can continue to operate if half the stuff people say about them is true.

If you are not sure then use Paypal - the end user there is always right and the seller isn't

[craig1]

I got advice from a very helpful young lady at my bank on how to stop these when I got hit a while ago. Get a credit card only for these transactions and get it from a major provider rather than a budget one, pay it off in full every month. If a transaction refuses to stop and the card company get iffy then threaten to close the entire account, if they still won't help then get a new account and transfer the recurring authorities you want to keep to it. Cancel the old card and send a written statement that you have no valid transactions expected on the account and that you explicitly refuse any liability for charges they honour without your permission.

Bit of a pain but it's apparently the easiest way to get shot of a leech.

[xoggoth]

Pretty sure I've used Vistaprint in remote past too, no problem then. JM's comment above is right, there was something in Ripoff Britain a few weeks back about people singing up to things and having no legal right to get out, it pays to be very careful. If unsure, always read and save terms and conditions.

Actually, skip the if unsure bit. I would have said before reading this that Vistaprint was a reputable company and unlikely to be a problem.

PS When I said JM's comment was right, obviously I was referring to the main comment, not the big fat lardy woman thing. The chap has no taste!

PPS Would this be a thing trading standards should also look at? Obviously etc.

[Jeff Maginty]

..

[d000hg]

These scams have been going on for years, certainly were when I first got business cards on forming my Ltd.

[Paddy]

The direct debit guarantee says


Linky

If the bank mess it up, or the charges change without the supplier telling you, then you have rights.

Mine was an argument because HSBC debit card was marked also as VISA debit. HSBC said it had nothing to do with VISA. VISA said it was an HSBC problem. It took months to sort out but HSBC admitted their staff had given the wrong information.

[TheFaQQer]

It's not a direct debit, it's a recurring charge on your credit of debit card. They are making millions on this scam as there's no way for the banks to refund a recurring charge and they won't cancel it either.

My bank suggested the easiest way to stop them would be to cancel the card and order new ones. Legalised scamster s

Thank goodness I paid by PayPal on my last order, then

Even if the bank cancels your credit card, then they can still charge it, as I found out at one stage.

[bless 'em all]

there's no way for the banks to refund a recurring charge and they won't cancel it either.

My bank suggested the easiest way to stop them would be to cancel the card and order new ones. Legalised scamster s

Utter BS. The charge will be billed against your old card number then some process at the bank tracks it through and feeds the new number back. It might take a month or so but eventually you'll see the charges appear again.

It took me 2 years to get AOL to cancel a charge on my debit card for a dial-up internet connection.

The only way is to stop it if you can't get whoever is charging your card is to change banks.

[DimPrawn]

The direct debit guarantee says


Linky

If the bank mess it up, or the charges change without the supplier telling you, then you have rights.

It's not a direct debit, it's a recurring charge on your credit of debit card. They are making millions on this scam as there's no way for the banks to refund a recurring charge and they won't cancel it either.

My bank suggested the easiest way to stop them would be to cancel the card and order new ones. Legalised scamster s

[TheFaQQer]

I had a similar problem, the bank said they could not help. To cut a long story short, the bank was were wrong and were obliged to stop them. It took several hours on the phone to sort it out, The trick is not to give up and talk to the top people in the bank

The direct debit guarantee says

customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society.

Linky

If the bank mess it up, or the charges change without the supplier telling you, then you have rights.