Reply to: Newsnight grrrrr

[xoggoth]

When anyone criticises the awful NHS why do people always refer to the US as though it is typical of health services with a market element? In many other countries, Australia and France eg, there is a decent basic system and you can then pay for additional care. That's what we should have, not this piss awful socialist system.

[Lucy]

$80? Nah ... what kind of GP cost $80? Once you get the money back from Medicare, it won't be $80. More like $10 - $15/ visit. And if you go to bulk bill medical centre it's free (for citizen & residents of course).

I lived on the north shore in Sydney, four years ago. The doctors I saw only bulk-billed if you were on welfare, I never had any need to go to a medical centre.

[vhadiant]

I'm not bagging the aussie standards - in fact I'm pretty sure I said they're probably better. But at a cost - $80 is still $80 more than it costs here.

$80? Nah ... what kind of GP cost $80? Once you get the money back from Medicare, it won't be $80. More like $10 - $15/ visit. And if you go to bulk bill medical centre it's free (for citizen & residents of course).

[vhadiant]

You only pay at the point of service if you are not on welfare, you only contribute via tax levy when you earn AUD100 000+.

That's not entirely true, you contribute regardless to Medicare through your income tax. You'll get Medicare levy once you earn a certain amount and you're taxed even more if you don't have a private health insurance when you reach a certain amount.

I've experienced both health systems. I reckon back home (Oz), we got it (almost) right. Having said that, Australia's tiny population makes it easier to manage Medicare.

I'm not saying Medicare is all singing and dancing, but the quality of public care, hospital & services is definitely much better than here in the UK.

[Churchill]

Do you really think it would be as much as the NHS costs here?

Why shouldn't there be incentive for people to keep themselves healthy, if they can?

An incentive like what? Pay less NI?

The reason the NHS per capita is relatively cheap is because it's divided per capita! The needs of the few are subsidised by the many. It's the greater good!

[Lucy]

Why - it's a preventative inhaler. You take it on a regular basis (Twice a day), 60 hits an inhaler - increase if you get a cold. No more asthma symptoms.

My point is that yeah the system there may well be better, but it costs more. Same in the US.

Do you really think it would be as much as the NHS costs here?

Why shouldn't there be incentive for people to keep themselves healthy, if they can?

[snaw]

AUD45 I'd be worried if you needed one a month!

Why - it's a preventative inhaler. You take it on a regular basis (Twice a day), 60 hits an inhaler - increase if you get a cold. No more asthma symptoms.

My point is that yeah the system there may well be better, but it costs more. Same in the US.

[Lucy]

Yep, and the cost of seretide say is around $100 - and you'll go through at least one of them a month - lot more than you'd pay here ...

AUD45 I'd be worried if you needed one a month!

[snaw]

The cost of ventalin in Australia is AUD15

Yep, and the cost of seretide say is around $100 - and you'll go through at least one of them a month - lot more than you'd pay here ...

[Churchill]

The cost of ventalin in Australia is AUD15, less than here, and in my experience, and I did live there for 15 years Australia is far far better. There is motivation by doctors to be good at what they do, they don't just get
100k a year for turning up. Both doctors I saw had secondary quals, and this is not uncommon.

I don't want an argument, or name calling, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

**** me! You are ill!

[Lucy]

I'm not bagging the aussie standards - in fact I'm pretty sure I said they're probably better. But at a cost - $80 is still $80 more than it costs here. And for someone not working in IT, with private insurance it's quite a lot of cash. If you're on regular medication (Asthmatics say) then you you'll be paying a lot more money out on regular prescriptions than you would here.

The doctors in Aus are no better or worse than here from what I saw - ll depends who you get (Worse Dr I ever saw was in Aus FYI, doesn't mean they're all bad).

care in the US is most defintely better than anywhere I've seen - if you're on a good plan and/or have tonnes of cash. If not then it's almost third world like.

The cost of ventalin in Australia is AUD15, less than here, and in my experience, and I did live there for 15 years Australia is far far better. There is motivation by doctors to be good at what they do, they don't just get
100k a year for turning up. Both doctors I saw had secondary quals, and this is not uncommon.

I don't want an argument, or name calling, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

[snaw]

You only pay at the point of service if you are not on welfare, you only contribute via tax levy when you earn AUD100 000+.

Cost to see a doctor around AUD40-60, dentist check up is AUD80 - hardly wads of cash.

Many people have private health cover circa AUD150 per month means you are fully covered for just about anything, private hospital, dental etc I have experience the private system in Australia and it is excellent.

The doctors I have seen in Australia would wipe the floor with the doctors I have seen here. Here doctors are more like civil servants - getting paid nomatter what they 'produce'. My most recent misdiagnosis is more proof. The doctor I had in London couldn't even read the results of an ECG I had!

The standards in Australia are the reason I went to hospital there and why, when I go there I see one of the best dentists I've ever been to. The Harley Street dentist I saw here cracked my tooth, completed fliped up my root canal and charged my fund over £1000 for the pleasure.

Re the US - my partner's manager has cancer, he travels to the US for his treatment! He is american, but has lived here for over 20 years, I think that he is willing to travel so far when he is so ill speaks volumes for their quality of care.

I'm not bagging the aussie standards - in fact I'm pretty sure I said they're probably better. But at a cost - $80 is still $80 more than it costs here. And for someone not working in IT, with private insurance it's quite a lot of cash. If you're on regular medication (Asthmatics say) then you you'll be paying a lot more money out on regular prescriptions than you would here.

The doctors in Aus are no better or worse than here from what I saw - ll depends who you get (Worse Dr I ever saw was in Aus FYI, doesn't mean they're all bad).

care in the US is most defintely better than anywhere I've seen - if you're on a good plan and/or have tonnes of cash. If not then it's almost third world like.

[Churchill]

You only pay at the point of service if you are not on welfare, you only contribute via tax levy when you earn AUD100 000+.

Cost to see a doctor around AUD40-60, dentist check up is AUD80 - hardly wads of cash.

Many people have private health cover circa AUD150 per month means you are fully covered for just about anything, private hospital, dental etc I have experience the private system in Australia and it is excellent.

The doctors I have seen in Australia would wipe the floor with the doctors I have seen here. Here doctors are more like civil servants - getting paid nomatter what they 'produce'. My most recent misdiagnosis is more proof. The doctor I had in London couldn't even read the results of an ECG I had!

The standards in Australia are the reason I went to hospital there and why, when I go there I see one of the best dentists I've ever been to. The Harley Street dentist I saw here cracked my tooth, completed fliped up my root canal and charged my fund over £1000 for the pleasure.

Re the US - my partner's manager has cancer, he travels to the US for his treatment! He is american, but has lived here for over 20 years, I think that he is willing to travel so far when he is so ill speaks volumes for their quality of care.

See!

It works!

Bloody hell, that was quick.

Have you flossed?

[Lucy]

Medicare. Ever heard of it - you don't get it until you become a citizen. Medicine and doctors cost money. Dentists cost money etc.

Not the NHS subsidised kind either, big chunks of cash. Then when you got it you still have to pay something when you visit a doctor, or dentist etc.

You only pay at the point of service if you are not on welfare, you only contribute via tax levy when you earn AUD100 000+.

Cost to see a doctor around AUD40-60, dentist check up is AUD80 - hardly wads of cash.

Many people have private health cover circa AUD150 per month means you are fully covered for just about anything, private hospital, dental etc I have experience the private system in Australia and it is excellent.

The doctors I have seen in Australia would wipe the floor with the doctors I have seen here. Here doctors are more like civil servants - getting paid nomatter what they 'produce'. My most recent misdiagnosis is more proof. The doctor I had in London couldn't even read the results of an ECG I had!

The standards in Australia are the reason I went to hospital there and why, when I go there I see one of the best dentists I've ever been to. The Harley Street dentist I saw here cracked my tooth, completed fecked up my root canal and charged my fund over £1000 for the pleasure.

Re the US - my partner's manager has cancer, he travels to the US for his treatment! He is american, but has lived here for over 20 years, I think that he is willing to travel so far when he is so ill speaks volumes for their quality of care.

[Churchill]

I would be interested to read your experiences in the Australian healthcare system and what costs you are talking about.

Give him a BJ and you'll be an expert in no time!