Reply to: Can whole countries go mad?

[MarillionFan]

Only on CUK could someone compare the contestants in Big Brother to the Nazis!

[Peoplesoft bloke]

That's how it goes. The armed forces are under the control of politicians, and sworn to obey them.

That's why I get really annoyed with people who make abusive and insulting comments about the military because they disagree with the politicians - it's not the fault of the forces if their political masters are a bunch of idiots.

I'm totally opposed to the war in Irag, but I have nothing but respect for the servicemen and servicewomen putting their lives on the line out there.

Totally agree

[NickFitz]

My brother is in 1para - he joined to wage war on "evil regimes and personages". Alas he finds himself as another arm of the New Liebour spin machine. ho hum.

That's how it goes. The armed forces are under the control of politicians, and sworn to obey them.

That's why I get really annoyed with people who make abusive and insulting comments about the military because they disagree with the politicians - it's not the fault of the forces if their political masters are a bunch of idiots.

I'm totally opposed to the war in Iraq, but I have nothing but respect for the servicemen and servicewomen putting their lives on the line out there.

[BrilloPad]

blooming heck Alf

is that one of the tasks of the government, to identify then wage war on evil regimes and personages ?


you frighten me sometimes

My brother is in 1para - he joined to wage war on "evil regimes and personages". Alas he finds himself as another arm of the New Liebour spin machine. ho hum.

[EternalOptimist]

Churchill was absolutely correct in waging War with Nazi Germany - Hitler's Nazism was recognized for what it was - pure evil.

Dont forget it was not only Jews who perished in concentration camps but millions of Soviets, political prisoners, invalids and gays.

If they want a war of extermination - they will have one.

Josef Stalin

blooming heck Alf

is that one of the tasks of the government, to identify then wage war on evil regimes and personages ?


you frighten me sometimes

[BrilloPad]

Looks like he go that right. Brits (and that includes the Scots and the Welsh) wouldn't be my number one nation to pick on.

Particularly after a football match.

[The Lone Gunman]

Churchill was absolutely correct in waging War with Nazi Germany - Hitler's Nazism was recognized for what it was - pure evil.

Dont forget it was not only Jews who perished in concentration camps but millions of Soviets, political prisoners, invalids and gays.

If they want a war of extermination - they will have one.

Josef Stalin

Point of order comrade, but no one knew about the death camps and nazi evil when we went to war with them.

[AlfredJPruffock]

It is arguable that if we had made a deal, a lot of lives would have been saved. And that might include a lot of Jewish lives, just in case you think the moral case was overwhelming because of the Holocaust.

And incidentally Great Britain would not have been bankrupted, Europe not shattered, and the nuclear arms race and the Cold War not launched.

Churchill was absolutely correct in waging War with Nazi Germany - Hitler's Nazism was recognized for what it was - pure evil.

Dont forget it was not only Jews who perished in concentration camps but millions of Soviets, political prisoners, invalids and gays.

If they want a war of extermination - they will have one.

Josef Stalin

[ace00]

no, thats ahistorical. judging past events etc by current thinking. (thats where snaw fcks up)
you cant judge what the Romans did by the conventions on human rights.

The nazis did not want more and more and more. They had a justification for their existance(an unfair deal after ww 1) they had an ideology (take stuff off the sub humans to give us living space) and they had a plan (political leverage, but use force if you have to) - they never had a plan for world domination. Hitler himself had a great respect and a fear of the anglo saxon fighting spirit, he hated the idea of taking on the brits, even though their land based manpower could outnumber ours 20:1

I think we agree really. The harshness of Versailles gave rise to the environment that allowed Totalitarianism to flourish in Germany. I also have no doubt the Nazis wanted peace with the UK anglo-saxons. And I totally agree, they would not have tried to conquer the World through arms, but they would have expanded Germany to cover Poland, Czech, Low countries, Austria, parts of France, and parts of various Eastern Europe states. They would have dominated Europe, Russia (if they didn't wipe it out), Near East, Africa. They would have had the strongest military-industrial complex in the World, Nukes, and have been ruled by a madman. Not a good recipe.
I disagree with comparison to Rome though. There was a sickness at the heart of Nazism that Rome didn't have. That's why Rome lasted a 1000 years (nearly), and Hitler's "holy roman empire" crumbled in a few years. I find Nazism closer to Islamic fundamentalism personally.

[TimberWolf]

Hitler himself had a great respect and a fear of the anglo saxon fighting spirit,

Looks like he go that right. Brits (and that includes the Scots and the Welsh) wouldn't be my number one nation to pick on.

[EternalOptimist]

The Nazis had form for thuggery, murder, extreme discrimination and plain insanity even before 39.

look, any people who come out of a massive conflict, like ww1

are dehumanised an totally fked up. not just the nazis or stalin - everyone.
its easy for us to hate the nazis, there are loads of films and books to help us do it, and most of all - we won.
but maybe we are the nazis nowadays, lets just think about what thuggery, murder, extreme discrimination and plain insanity we are doing.
I know its not as bad as Germany in the 40's, but I do worry about what s happening in gito

[EternalOptimist]

Possible, but extremely unlikely. The Nazis had form for thuggery, murder, extreme discrimination and plain insanity even before 39.
A peace deal would likely have seen an expanded German nation ruled by Nazis, ruling Europe, and soon enough they would have wanted to expand their empire further.
Either total European capitulation or Nuclear holocaust would have been the more likely outcome IMO.

no, thats ahistorical. judging past events etc by current thinking. (thats where snaw fcks up)
you cant judge what the Romans did by the conventions on human rights.

The nazis did not want more and more and more. They had a justification for their existance(an unfair deal after ww 1) they had an ideology (take stuff off the sub humans to give us living space) and they had a plan (political leverage, but use force if you have to) - they never had a plan for world domination. Hitler himself had a great respect and a fear of the anglo saxon fighting spirit, he hated the idea of taking on the brits, even though their land based manpower could outnumber ours 20:1

[Peoplesoft bloke]

There is a huge similarity between the classes and occupations of those that supported the National Socialists and New Labour. I am sure that Hans in 1937 thought that it was ‘only fair’.

Thatcher

[BrilloPad]

Possible, but extremely unlikely. The Nazis had form for thuggery, murder, extreme discrimination and plain insanity even before 39.
A peace deal would likely have seen an expanded German nation ruled by Nazis, ruling Europe, and soon enough they would have wanted to expand their empire further.
Either total European capitulation or Nuclear holocaust would have been the more likely outcome IMO.

My grandfather (who lost 2 brothers in WW1) reckoned we were too harsh at the Treaty of Versailles and effectively started WW2.

A bit harsh - but it is hard to judge events one has not lived through.

[ace00]

Its possible. The nazis were certainly wary of public opinion and a lot of the things they did were for short term political gain, like declaring war on the USA.
They didnt even go to a total war footing till the middle of 1943, it was only after that the they started on the worst atrocities.

Possible, but extremely unlikely. The Nazis had form for thuggery, murder, extreme discrimination and plain insanity even before 39.
A peace deal would likely have seen an expanded German nation ruled by Nazis, ruling Europe, and soon enough they would have wanted to expand their empire further.
Either total European capitulation or Nuclear holocaust would have been the more likely outcome IMO.