Reply to: ITIL Foundation Certificate

[arthur_cider]

Does anyone know when ITIL2 was available?

[arthur_cider]

Mine.

It's got an ITIL in Five Minutes intro on it for potential clients. It's not a teach-yourself-ITIL guide, and needs rewriting anyway since it's ITIL2 not ITIL3. There's actually much the same on the main ITIL sites, but you have to dig around a bit to find it.

I also tripped over a pretty good video lecture on ITIL3 recently. If I can track it down again I'll post the URL

Can you post a link please to your site!

[daviejones]

No. The data for Root Cause Analyses, if it is to have any value, should come from the techniciam who fixes the Incident. You can't do it from the reported fault, only from the actual resolution. Getting and recording that data is part of the Incident Management process which is being operated by the Helpdesk (ServiceDesk, to be picky) and is therefore their responsibility.

And do you really think EDS and the rest are going to spend money reducing their income stream? Go read their contracts carefully...

I disagree. The data for root cause analysis, comes from the Problem Management process. Incident Management is only concerned with either getting the system back up and running or providing a work around. The IM process and the Service Desk can be 2 different entities, although the Service Desk should "own" the incident. Once the system is back up and runnig, then the PM process should start the RCA process to identify the root cause. This usually involves 2nd - 4th line support \ Dev \ test etc.

the PM process should be updating the Knowledge Base so thatthe Service Desk are aware that there is a work around but the Service Desk should not be spending more than a few mins on a call in an attempt to provide a first time fix...

[cojak]

I'm working on a new ITIL based product, soon to hit your local supermarket shelves, and have not ITIL experience. Having worked on it for quite a while now, it looks a piece of donkey wee wee and basically puts into words what us professionals have been doing fow years, albeit in a long winded fashion.

I did come across a lovely little SM product at the itSMF conference a couple of weeks ago that has been added to my wishlist (while others have dropped off it).

e-Service Desk by ICCM - you heard it here first...

[malvolio]

Malvolio, what website are running?

Mine.

It's got an ITIL in Five Minutes intro on it for potential clients. It's not a teach-yourself-ITIL guide, and needs rewriting anyway since it's ITIL2 not ITIL3. There's actually much the same on the main ITIL sites, but you have to dig around a bit to find it.

I also tripped over a pretty good video lecture on ITIL3 recently. If I can track it down again I'll post the URL

[arthur_cider]

OK, so what is the difference - without reference to my PM or website...

Malvolio, what website are running?

[malvolio]

I'm working on a new ITIL based product, soon to hit your local supermarket shelves, and have not ITIL experience. Having worked on it for quite a while now, it looks a piece of donkey wee wee and basically puts into words what us professionals have been doing fow years, albeit in a long winded fashion.

Yep, that how it goes. But FFS, don't tell everyone...

[darmstadt]

I'm working on a new ITIL based product, soon to hit your local supermarket shelves, and have not ITIL experience. Having worked on it for quite a while now, it looks a piece of donkey wee wee and basically puts into words what us professionals have been doing fow years, albeit in a long winded fashion.

[malvolio]

Not sure what you're getting at there, helpdesks are there as a first line of support, everything should be logged and sent up the chain so that problems can be prioritised and fixed accordingly (generally by better trained and more expensive employees) to prevent further incidents.

Without the helpdesk (outsourced or otherwise) the people tasked with fixing the root of the problems will have to field calls from users who are creating their incidents from a lack of training,understanding or intelligence.

The issue with helpdesks that you have described is where the client company is not getting the feedback they should from the helpdesk provider. Which is their fault for either not speicifying it as a definite requirement when the contracts were agreed or for not chasing up and auditing the consistancy of reports recieved.
The helpdesk provider is simply trying to turn a profit like any other company.

No. The data for Root Cause Analyses, if it is to have any value, should come from the techniciam who fixes the Incident. You can't do it from the reported fault, only from the actual resolution. Getting and recording that data is part of the Incident Management process which is being operated by the Helpdesk (ServiceDesk, to be picky) and is therefore their responsibility.

And do you really think EDS and the rest are going to spend money reducing their income stream? Go read their contracts carefully...

[Spacecadet]

This is where outsourced helpdesks are inherently inefficient. They get paid for fixing Incidents, so have no incentive to fix problems instead: they get more money, you get more failures.

Not sure what you're getting at there, helpdesks are there as a first line of support, everything should be logged and sent up the chain so that problems can be prioritised and fixed accordingly (generally by better trained and more expensive employees) to prevent further incidents.

Without the helpdesk (outsourced or otherwise) the people tasked with fixing the root of the problems will have to field calls from users who are creating their incidents from a lack of training,understanding or intelligence.

The issue with helpdesks that you have described is where the client company is not getting the feedback they should from the helpdesk provider. Which is their fault for either not speicifying it as a definite requirement when the contracts were agreed or for not chasing up and auditing the consistancy of reports recieved.
The helpdesk provider is simply trying to turn a profit like any other company.

[malvolio]

Incidents are the result of an (in)action and can lead to Problems occurring.

You need to investigate the cause of the incident and implement a change in behaviour or procedure etc to make sure future problems do not occur.

Apologies, my original post was not meant to come over as a know-it-all response.

Hmmm... Wrong way round.

Incidents are single failures to behave as intended.

Problems are the root cause of Incidents.

So for example, failures to log on remotely are Incidents and are easily remedied. However, better user training will probably reduce the number of times people forget how to do it so you don't get the Incident in the first place

This is where outsourced helpdesks are inherently inefficient. They get paid for fixing Incidents, so have no incentive to fix problems instead: they get more money, you get more failures.

[Francko]

Like the Prince2 foundation, it's difficult *not* to pass the ITIL foundation exam. Also like the Prince2 foundation, you can get through by giving the most sensible real-world answers to the multiple choice questions.

Yes and then when applying to real work, just use the least sensible real-word solutions to problems.

[Clippy]

OK, so what is the difference - without reference to my PM or website...

Incidents are the result of an (in)action and can lead to Problems occurring.

You need to investigate the cause of the incident and implement a change in behaviour or procedure etc to make sure future problems do not occur.

Apologies, my original post was not meant to come over as a know-it-all response.

[malvolio]

Wow, that comment was worth resurrecting this old thread. Inspired.

OK, so what is the difference - without reference to my PM or website...

[Clippy]

Do you really need ITIL to describe the difference between an Incident and a Problem

surely not ?

Wow, that comment was worth resurrecting this old thread. Inspired.