Reply to: Property prices!

[xoggoth]

I don't have major a problem with some redistribution provided it is properly targetted. I don't even have a major problem with the MORALITY of socialism in general, only the practicality.

Surely the problem with this sort of thing is that it is not properly targetted and has nothing to do with need? Once someone is established in council housing they are pretty much in it for life regardless of any improvement in their position. This means that those eventually able to buy their council houses are neither the most needy not the most deserving. Part of this subsidy may come from those who are.

Totally wrong in my view.

[nucastle]

I know people who didnt have the earnings to be able to afford a house and lived in a council house instead.

.... they later sold their council houses (after buying them for nothing) and now have a better standard of life than people who earn more money, but bought their own houses instead of getting them off the council.

Thats the way the cookee crumbles, and im not bitter or anything, but its interesting to see people who's circumstances meant they couldnt afford a house properly, now have more wonga than people who wouldnt or couldnt live in social accomodation.

The reasons for selling council houses were totally understandable, but it really is a 'leg up' eh

[andy]

.
Gordon Brown actually wrote a book on how to scrounge off the state, so you can see that the problem starts at the top.

Seems like he has perfected this art by now

[wendigo100]

Guardian reader alert.

Not really. What he's saying is you can't blame people for spongeing if the opportunities are there.

When he was at Uni, Gordon Brown actually wrote a book on how to scrounge off the state, so you can see that the problem starts at the top.

[HRH]

These people are only taking advantage of the opportunities they have open to them. I only wish I had been smart enough not to work hard and do what seemed to be the 'right thing' when I could have sponged off the state and had a similar standard of living. The lesson seems clear, unless you are making good enough money to claw yourself out of a mediocre existence you are better off not working for a living. A lot of people are making a sensible pragmatic choice.

Guardian reader alert.

[hugebrain]

Council Houses

I think it's actually the opposite. We have been subsidising the scroungers for years and because they've scammed so much money from us already, we think it's worth giving them an extra twenty grand to cut our losses.

Council houses were designed as a sort of reverse eugenics to breed legions of future Labour voters. Thatcher naturally tried to stop this. Unfortunately it has backfired a bit and now we have the twin scourges of housing associations and housing benefit buy-to-letters. Same problems as before, but even more expensive.

[shoes]

These people are only taking advantage of the opportunities they have open to them. I only wish I had been smart enough not to work hard and do what seemed to be the 'right thing' when I could have sponged off the state and had a similar standard of living. The lesson seems clear, unless you are making good enough money to claw yourself out of a mediocre existence you are better off not working for a living. A lot of people are making a sensible pragmatic choice.

[ASB]

I've absolutley nothing against people buying their council house. Except for the following two items.

1) Why should they be given a preferential price?

2) We give people council houses because they 'need' to house their families

The principle is that 2 causes 1. The theory goes that letting council houses should be revenue neutral, ie. should only need to cover repairs and effectively the cost of the money deployed as the capital value of the housing stock. Rents however have exceeded this. The discount granted under right to buy is supposed to equate to the capital contribution that the tenant has effectively made over the years towards to buildings capital cost. Whether this is reasonable is a different matter entirely of course.

I find it particularly distateful when a long-term tenant buys their Westminster council flat for 60k under RTB and then flogs it the next day for 250k. There are ways for clawback under these circumstances but they are rarely used.

[HRH]

I'm renting a property worth around £230k that's costing me £400 a month less than it would to buy with an interest only mortgage, assuming I didn't put a large deposit down if I bought it. I'm saving around £800/month on a repayment mortgage according to your average mortgage calculator. Hope the landlord doesn't put up the rent significantly whilst I'm needing it!

I'd hate to be in the shoes of today's youngsters who are desperate to get on the property ladder in this country at the moment. If I was back in that position I'd be looking to rent here and buy abroad, ready for that quick getaway into the sun when I'd filled my boots in blighty.

I totally agree with you. Im 25 and moved straight from my parents to my own house last Sept. I only bought instead of renting because I was told by everyone one you must 'get your foot on the ladder' ........ I certainly don't have as active social life as I used to and the nearly 1k a month Im shelling out with council tax/bill etc could have surely been better invested.....


Ok so if I sold up now I'd have made between 10-20 k on the place but I still have to buy another house in the same area where everyone elses has gone up by that much-its a totally false economy!

[IR35 Avoider]

Council housing should be eliminated. It should be illegal for government (local or national) to have any involvment in the residential property market, other than fulfilling their planning duties.

If there are people who are considered deserving of help, they should be given it in cash through the social security system, sufficient for them to make there own arrangements in the private sector. Paying part of peoples benefits in terms of housing subsidies (whether these consist of below-market rents or right-to-buy discounts or government grants to refurbish or government subsidies of "low-cost housing" for "key workers") distorts and conceals what is being done and makes it difficult to see who is getting how much from taxpayers.

Allowing councils to be landlords and in charge of planning explains most of the ugly buildings in Britain and why high-rise flats have a bad reputation here whereas they can be extremely desirable in many other countries.

[Captain Dispensable]

I have a 100% Mortgage 4.5 times my income and im paying nearly £800 a month for the privilage on a £140 k house.....

I'm renting a property worth around £230k that's costing me £400 a month less than it would to buy with an interest only mortgage, assuming I didn't put a large deposit down if I bought it. I'm saving around £800/month on a repayment mortgage according to your average mortgage calculator. Hope the landlord doesn't put up the rent significantly whilst I'm needing it!

I'd hate to be in the shoes of today's youngsters who are desperate to get on the property ladder in this country at the moment. If I was back in that position I'd be looking to rent here and buy abroad, ready for that quick getaway into the sun when I'd filled my boots in blighty.

[HRH]

Yes but think yourself lucky 5 years ago you'd never have got a 100% mortgage on that amount, banks just wouldn't touch that sort of exposure with a barge pole.

Believe me it was no picnic getting this one sorted!

[boredsenseless]

here here! And shared ownership is a joke too! I have a 100% Mortgage 4.5 times my income and im paying nearly £800 a month for the privilage on a £140 k house.....

Its my first home and I was encoraged to do so, I work hard to pay for this so excuse me if Im a little reentful of those who get a 'leg up'!!

Yes but think yourself lucky 5 years ago you'd never have got a 100% mortgage on that amount, banks just wouldn't touch that sort of exposure with a barge pole.

[boredsenseless]

Well I'll never agree with you there I'm afraid.

My folks bought their council house in the 80's and it changed all of our lives.
People should be given a leg up if they need it, and I'm really proud of this country for doing that for people.

I've absolutley nothing against people buying their council house. Except for the following two items.

1) Why should they be given a preferential price? In the case of your friend the council should have set a price, i.e. the 40k, and insisted that in a months time it was revalued at the now 'private' price, i.e the 60K. They then agree that if she sells in the next 10 years she owns the council 30% (i.e the third she got for free) of the sale price, assuming it sells for more than 40K. (To be fair i'd allow this percentage to go down by one tenth a year, so that if she sold in year 5 she'd only have to give the council 15%). This is how shared ownership works (except for the decreasing repayments) so why should subsidised housing be different.

2) We give people council houses because they 'need' to house their families, if they can bl00dy well afford to buy the house why don't they buy one in the private sector and leave the council house for someone who really needs them. I think you'll find the whole concept of council house purchase is actually just an experiment in social engineering.

[HRH]

That's not help, it's a hindrance. Being in hock to 'our friends in the City' is not my definition of freedom.

here here! And shared ownership is a joke too! I have a 100% Mortgage 4.5 times my income and im paying nearly £800 a month for the privilage on a £140 k house.....

Its my first home and I was encoraged to do so, I work hard to pay for this so excuse me if Im a little reentful of those who get a 'leg up'!!