Reply to: London perm salaries

[edison]

I pleased that all the pessimists have come out of the woodwork - This discussion is about perm salaries not contractor vs perms - I can tell you however that for me and my personal tax circumstances 650 a day was much better than 120K perm because I was able to

1) work 250 days for six years
2) able to retain a lot of the profits without taking them out of the company structure and bought BTL properties with them
3) Put through two people on the payroll as company secretary
4) Expense a lot of items

Maybe for you it does not work out but for me it definitely did

I hope we can now keep the discussion on the topic of salaries rather than try and sabotage the thread

If you're comparing like for like roles, there's no way that a £120k salary job plus benefits equated to £650 day rate. Yes, you might have had a more beneficial tax outcome but you worked with hardly any holiday for six years. The bigger question is why you weren't on a day rate of £800 plus?

WRT your original question, if you want to find comparisons, search for annual salary and contractor rate surveys that are published by several agencies such as Hays or Robert Half.

IIRC Robert Half are more FS orientated than Hays. The figures are a decent guide by role and sometimes region. I get these types of guides as I've used their services, sometimes they become publicly available a few months after they are published.

[Whorty]

Yes my obsession with rates and salaries so that I periodically and regularly decide which one is better and where I should be pivotting to - Highly beneficial to always become better and you should try it.

My calculations have been right - If I am wrong I asked you for your kind input already - No one actually double checked or discussed the numbers - We have some geniuses say that 75K passive income should mean retirement

And my favourite "People get into contracting for many reasons. It's not just about tax" OF COURSE. For bettering humanity people become contractors and eneter the shady world of one man bands and limited companies from their bedrooms - Nothing whatsoever to do with tax )

Mate, there is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance - what you're asking is for ways to evade tax (illegal) because you've already max'd your opportunities to avoid over-paying tax (legal).

You also assume all contractors only contract to avoid tax - this is so flawed is comical. Paying less tax was never a consideration for me going contracting although it was a nice by-product. I also take FTC contracts (so fully in PAYE) and umbrella contracts as well as LTD (well used to but closed my company down). Personally I contract for the flexibility to take extended time off when I feel like it and not just the odd 2 weeks each year.

Others will be contracting for different reasons - not everyone is trying to break the law

[Old Greg]

The stage is all yours - Lets see you do the weather dance today to take your post count to infinity

Yes my obsession with rates and salaries so that I periodically and regularly decide which one is better and where I should be pivotting to - Highly beneficial to always become better and you should try it.

My calculations have been right - If I am wrong I asked you for your kind input already - No one actually double checked or discussed the numbers - We have some geniuses say that 75K passive income should mean retirement

And my favourite "People get into contracting for many reasons. It's not just about tax" OF COURSE. For bettering humanity people become contractors and eneter the shady world of one man bands and limited companies from their bedrooms - Nothing whatsoever to do with tax )

You still here?

And WTF: The main reason people get into contracting is the rates, and then people try to maximise their take home.

The main reason people choose a Ltd Co. over a Brolly is the tax. But if you can't work this out, there's little hope for you.

[LondonPM1]

Your obsession with salaries and equivalent rates, your incorrect calculations that you've made many times, your failure at mathematics - you keep repeating yourself, doesn't make them right.

People get into contracting for many reasons. It's not just about tax.

Yes my obsession with rates and salaries so that I periodically and regularly decide which one is better and where I should be pivotting to - Highly beneficial to always become better and you should try it.

My calculations have been right - If I am wrong I asked you for your kind input already - No one actually double checked or discussed the numbers - We have some geniuses say that 75K passive income should mean retirement

And my favourite "People get into contracting for many reasons. It's not just about tax" OF COURSE. For bettering humanity people become contractors and eneter the shady world of one man bands and limited companies from their bedrooms - Nothing whatsoever to do with tax )

[WTFH]

No quite sure why you are still rising to his tulip WTFH.

I'm bored.

I'm watching a spider catch flies on my window following a successful go live.

I'm reading about someone who claims to be in his 30s and knows everything about everything.

And I'm waiting to hear about one of the people on here who works for Hector sending him a PM.

[clearedforlanding]

Your obsession with salaries and equivalent rates, your incorrect calculations that you've made many times, your failure at mathematics - you keep repeating yourself, doesn't make them right.

People get into contracting for many reasons. It's not just about tax.

No quite sure why you are still rising to his tulip WTFH.

[WTFH]

Yes indeed WTFH - Contractors become contractors because they want to volunteer their skills sets and "avoid the office politics".

The fact that contractors take home pay is vastly improved (as laid out mathematically at the beginning of this thread which showed what a 100K salary would look like) and together with many threads on this site which used to talk about expenses, wife employment, optimal tax thresholds, BIK for cars and most interestingly people stung by loan charges is just a by product and a second order effect

People who are contractors are not doing it for take home pay / tax reasons but simply because they like being flexible .

Thank you for clearing this up - Its as clear as mud

Every attempt to plan discuss / optimise tax is met with claims that it is tax evasion - Meanwhile contractors have stayed for years as disguised employees whilst people simply nod and play along going through the circus of IR35 interpretation

Your obsession with salaries and equivalent rates, your incorrect calculations that you've made many times, your failure at mathematics - you keep repeating yourself, doesn't make them right.

People get into contracting for many reasons. It's not just about tax.

[LondonPM1]

Job's a good 'un.

The stage is all yours - Lets see you do the weather dance today to take your post count to infinity

[LondonPM1]

Except it's another falsehood from him. He hasn't contributed anything to the forum, and as for his claim that ContractorUK is supposed to be a forum to explain how to carry out tax evasion, we're not.

Yes indeed WTFH - Contractors become contractors because they want to volunteer their skills sets and "avoid the office politics".

The fact that contractors take home pay is vastly improved (as laid out mathematically at the beginning of this thread which showed what a 100K salary would look like) and together with many threads on this site which used to talk about expenses, wife employment, optimal tax thresholds, BIK for cars and most interestingly people stung by loan charges is just a by product and a second order effect

People who are contractors are not doing it for take home pay / tax reasons but simply because they like being flexible .

Thank you for clearing this up - Its as clear as mud

Every attempt to plan discuss / optimise tax is met with claims that it is tax evasion - Meanwhile contractors have stayed for years as disguised employees whilst people simply nod and play along going through the circus of IR35 interpretation

[WTFH]

Job's a good 'un.

Except it's another falsehood from him. He hasn't contributed anything to the forum, and as for his claim that ContractorUK is supposed to be a forum to explain how to carry out tax evasion, we're not.

[Old Greg]

This forum is full of old people telling all the youngsters to never go contracting and posting garbage about the weather and discussing everything apart from contracting

For people in their mid to late 30s serious about their career and earning capacity and tax optimisation which is what this forum should be about it’s very unfortunate

When a thread moves to general you just know it’s time to check out because all the lazy people jump in and take the conversation to a different tangent

It was worth posting for me to get a feel of what London financial perm salaries were paying. The rest of the thread was hijacked by people who wanted to pass their time

A shame that the admins don’t actually stop this childish behaviour but I ll go back to just browse mode rather than contribute mode

Job's a good 'un.

[Old Greg]

Wow

For a dinosaur of tech your ability to string arguments and adult conversation is at the level of children who enjoy playing with toys of the same name.

This thread from memory started as a genuine request about VP perm salaries.

Your input on the other hand was about your day rate and how much you have to be paid to get out of bed. We care because...?

Anyway, quick answer to the question above is no I am not the OP. You guys serious that people waste time with 2 logins for supporting their own argument? How much spare do these people have!?!

We do indeed enjoy toying with folk like you.

[PermMCCon]

This forum is full of old people telling all the youngsters to never go contracting and posting garbage about the weather and discussing everything apart from contracting

For people in their mid to late 30s serious about their career and earning capacity and tax optimisation which is what this forum should be about it’s very unfortunate

When a thread moves to general you just know it’s time to check out because all the lazy people jump in and take the conversation to a different tangent

It was worth posting for me to get a feel of what London financial perm salaries were paying. The rest of the thread was hijacked by people who wanted to pass their time

A shame that the admins don’t actually stop this childish behaviour but I ll go back to just browse mode rather than contribute mode

Agreed

I’m back to browsing mode after this.

Best of luck in your search and hope it all works out.

[LondonPM1]

It's pretty demanding job but that's mainly as my area we work directly with front office, I found European banks alot less stress. The main benefit for me is the flexibility I get my team is spread across APAC, Europe and US so even though I'm based In London I can work to what time zone I want, currently working to US hrs so can do school run etc, its 555pm for me at moment.

I understand 625 wasn't enough for my friend but he was still basi g it on what the market was, covid and IR35 changes screwed it up, my place won't deal with PSC anymore. Hopefully things will recover but alot of people think this is end of good times. I do regret going permy when I could of milked a few more yrs out of contracting but I need flexibility over cash for last few yrs.

I terms of the role I was hiring for I got alot of very good strong CVs, there is alot of skilled people out there looking. In the end I had to take soneone on an internal move.

Thank you. This is spot on valuable info

How much time do you spend on coding and debugging vs planning budgeting and reporting

I thought you meant he wanted 625 but you could only offer 90 perm. Or did I misunderstand?

And finally you say your company does not take psc anymore. I am hearing the same. Does that mean all the contractors have been internalised or booted out

[BoggyMcCBoggyFace]

Thank you. This is helpful. Another data point to vindicate the whole argument of 625 a day vs 90k perm. Clearly in your example the applicant preferred 625 a day and I don’t blame them at all given the tax position

I’d love to hear what you or your teams working hours are like. Is it 9-6 with a one hour lunch break Or much more stressful. How much time are you coding vs project planning budget and admin

It's pretty demanding job but that's mainly as my area we work directly with front office, I found European banks alot less stress. The main benefit for me is the flexibility I get my team is spread across APAC, Europe and US so even though I'm based In London I can work to what time zone I want, currently working to US hrs so can do school run etc, its 555pm for me at moment.

I understand 625 wasn't enough for my friend but he was still basi g it on what the market was, covid and IR35 changes screwed it up, my place won't deal with PSC anymore. Hopefully things will recover but alot of people think this is end of good times. I do regret going permy when I could of milked a few more yrs out of contracting but I need flexibility over cash for last few yrs.

I terms of the role I was hiring for I got alot of very good strong CVs, there is alot of skilled people out there looking. In the end I had to take soneone on an internal move.