Reply to: Sensible Labour

[Zigenare]

What are visa regulations like for dull sockies?

Why? Are you planning on joining him?

[RasputinDude]

Trade unions exploit bad management which some British bosses make very easy.

I most certainly agree.

[BlasterBates]

From my experience of working in this sector, many other countries do infact already implement this sort of protectionism.

Don't get me wrong, I tend to think that the whole thing is a bad idea in general - largely because I don't trust trades unions not to try to exploit it, but I was specifically contesting your statement because there is actually a get out clause for national security in WTO rules.

indeed

[SueEllen]

From my experience of working in this sector, many other countries do infact already implement this sort of protectionism.

Don't get me wrong, I tend to think that the whole thing is a bad idea in general - largely because I don't trust trades unions not to try to exploit it, but I was specifically contesting your statement because there is actually a get out clause for national security in WTO rules.

Trade unions exploit bad management which some British bosses make very easy.

[BlasterBates]

From my experience of working in this sector, many other countries do infact already implement this sort of protectionism.

Britain has a thriving industry and is particularly dependent on exports so it doesn't really make sense.

I can't see the US accepting it given the reciprocal nature of the business.

[RasputinDude]

From my experience of working in this sector, many other countries do infact already implement this sort of protectionism.

Don't get me wrong, I tend to think that the whole thing is a bad idea in general - largely because I don't trust trades unions not to try to exploit it, but I was specifically contesting your statement because there is actually a get out clause for national security in WTO rules.

[BlasterBates]

Which as you can see here - WTO | legal texts - Revised Agreement on Government Procurement

Has the following exemption...

Article III — Security and General Exceptions

Nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to prevent any Party from taking any action or not disclosing any information that it considers necessary for the protection of its essential security interests relating to the procurement of arms, ammunition or war materials, or to procurement indispensable for national security or for national defence purposes.
Subject to the requirement that such measures are not applied in a manner that would constitute a means of arbitrary or unjustifiable discrimination between Parties where the same conditions prevail or a disguised restriction on international trade, nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to prevent any Party from imposing or enforcing measures:
necessary to protect public morals, order or safety;
necessary to protect human, animal or plant life or health;
necessary to protect intellectual property; or
relating to goods or services of persons with disabilities, philanthropic institutions or prison labour.

So do you not think other countries might not reciprocate ?

Would that be good for British Engineering companies that provide defence equipment all over the world, all of which are Government procurement contracts ?

UK defence and security export statistics for 2018 - GOV.UK

On a rolling 10 year basis, the UK remains the second largest global defence exporter after the USA.

In 2018, the UK won defence orders worth £14 billion, up on the previous year (£14 billion) and illustrative of the volatile nature of the global export market for defence.

I wonder how many jobs are safeguarded by contracts worth £14 billion.

Safeguard 200 jobs at an ailing ship builder and lose 2000 jobs in a top class defence exporter.

[RasputinDude]

The UK is signed up to the Government Procurement Agreeement which is part of WTO rules, i.e. the UK opens up its procurement to other countries and so has access to overseas contracts. If Britain goes "North Korea" it might be able to safeguard a few hundred jobs in a British shipyard but will lose thousands of jobs dependent on overseas contracts.

Not a good idea.

Which as you can see here - WTO | legal texts - Revised Agreement on Government Procurement

Has the following exemption...

Article III — Security and General Exceptions

Nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to prevent any Party from taking any action or not disclosing any information that it considers necessary for the protection of its essential security interests relating to the procurement of arms, ammunition or war materials, or to procurement indispensable for national security or for national defence purposes.
Subject to the requirement that such measures are not applied in a manner that would constitute a means of arbitrary or unjustifiable discrimination between Parties where the same conditions prevail or a disguised restriction on international trade, nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to prevent any Party from imposing or enforcing measures:
necessary to protect public morals, order or safety;
necessary to protect human, animal or plant life or health;
necessary to protect intellectual property; or
relating to goods or services of persons with disabilities, philanthropic institutions or prison labour.

[NotAllThere]

So labour wants to overpay for a fleet of ships so it can prop up it's union paymasters by keeping their subs rolling in?

These are ships, not subs.

[BlasterBates]

The UK is signed up to the Government Procurement Agreeement which is part of WTO rules, i.e. the UK opens up its procurement to other countries and so has access to overseas contracts. If Britain goes "North Korea" it might be able to safeguard a few hundred jobs in a British shipyard but will lose thousands of jobs dependent on overseas contracts.

Not a good idea.

[SueEllen]

FOG

[Old Greg]

If I had a capacity to earn £5000 a week, I would start looking for a country that doesn't play Robin Hood.

What are visa regulations like for dull sockies?

[elsergiovolador]

Would you rather earn £200 per week and pay no tax, or £5,000 per week and pay 55% tax? Hypothetically of course.

If I had a capacity to earn £5000 a week, I would start looking for a country that doesn't play Robin Hood.

[Paddy]

The steel work could easily be knocked up in Korea or Japan for a fraction of the price then towed over.

Because those industries are subsidised.

[SueEllen]

Obviously there have to be limits, governments should not prop up low-performing companies at the taxpayers' expense unless there is real prospect of improvement. However, it makes no sense to save a few million on a contract and risk losing a reasonably effective, tax paying, Brit-employing company that is worth a lot more to our economy.

Stop being sensible...