Reply to: ooohh is that a little bit Albanian

[vetran]

I won't answer all your points but...

1) White slave traders saw black people's hair and came up with the idea that blacks were more like animals, i.e. sub human. A bit different to most of the terms you quoted. I don't think I've ever heard the term honky for example, used in that type of way.

4) I haven't been to Tunisia but my wife is blonde and has told me of similar experiences in Africa. It doesn't mean that black people can't be offended by the same behaviour.

I don't know how you inferred that cultural appropriation might be a way of asking for special privileges but I'll leave you with a quote from Dave Chappelle, a black comedian: "The black man in America is the most copied man on this planet, bar none... Everybody wanna be a n****r but nobody wanna be a n****r.” It could be interpreted as white people taking everything but the burden from African-Americans.

1. the point I was making is that almost every culture has a word to define outsiders and it is never complimentary e.g. Gammons. To build the tribe you have to tear down outsiders, its what people do, luckily its now illegal to do it based on race. I wonder how were the newly enslaved were viewed by their African brothers who had captured them and sold them into slavery (90% of slaves in US were purchased from their fellow Africans) to the Arabs, Portuguese, British etc?

4. I agree its not acceptable but its not uncommon. It is not something only Black people have suffered. Again suggesting any race is lesser is now rightly illegal.

The "Burden" is what makes you sound like you want special privileges. At the time it was a valid rebuke to Kipling's jingoistic verse but all of his points have been resolved. We don't invade countries who are armed with a particularly sharp mango, we buy their rulers BMWs.

Yes you have to deal with racists (if you are a minority anywhere you will have that issue) but you have the right to equal opportunities, get elected and make sure you get them. Make sure your kids reach their full potential.

I cannot fix what was done centuries ago in Africa but lets be clear the trade was in full swing for centuries when the Europeans arrived and were fully supported by the majority of Africans (I suspect they were fine with their enemies becoming slaves not them). Slavery at the time was legal in every country in the world and had been for millennia.

The Americans & Europeans stopped slavery worldwide (by any civilised nation, it is still common in Africa and the middle east) despite the financial cost and have tried to adjust to a new world order. Despite that there are calls for reparations because African slavery is special, not quite sure why because it seems to be just as bad from every viewpoint as all the other versions.

[northernladuk]

4) I haven't been to Tunisia but my wife is blonde and has told me of similar experiences in Africa. It doesn't mean that black people can't be offended by the same behaviour.

Similar in Egypt. Very unnerving even though I'd spent time working out there and gotten used to many of the stuff that goes on.

I don't know how you inferred that cultural appropriation might be a way of asking for special privileges but I'll leave you with a quote from Dave Chappelle, a black comedian: "The black man in America is the most copied man on this planet, bar none... Everybody wanna be a n****r but nobody wanna be a n****r.” It could be interpreted as white people taking everything but the burden from African-Americans.

Which in this day could also be interpretated as victim mentality?

[edison]

1. Skin colour and other items have been used to separate and denigrate the Gaijin, Goy, feringhee, kafir, honky, WASP, Whitey etc. Its people not specifically white/black people.

2. During the Muslim age laws are made how women may wear their hair regardless of their religion.

3. Workers have lost their jobs or education due to their hair styles, religious symbols or tattoos. Some of them were Black.

4.You have obviously never been to Tunisia with blonde female children. Strangers walk up and touch their hair without permission. Blonde hair is fetishized there. The Yazidi sex slaves the ISIS scumbags traded were more prized if they had light skin & blue eyes. Its inherent that some people objectify stuff.

5.Elaborate hair and even body piercings were and are a status symbol in pretty much every society.




All the time you insist on fighting for special privileges you undermine the very reasonable request for equality which is all that society can provide.

All the time people lobby for a Black PM all I hear is "I want someone appointed based on the colour of their skin" you know that sounds racist?

I won't answer all your points but...

1) White slave traders saw black people's hair and came up with the idea that blacks were more like animals, i.e. sub human. A bit different to most of the terms you quoted. I don't think I've ever heard the term honky for example, used in that type of way.

4) I haven't been to Tunisia but my wife is blonde and has told me of similar experiences in Africa. It doesn't mean that black people can't be offended by the same behaviour.

I don't know how you inferred that cultural appropriation might be a way of asking for special privileges but I'll leave you with a quote from Dave Chappelle, a black comedian: "The black man in America is the most copied man on this planet, bar none... Everybody wanna be a n****r but nobody wanna be a n****r.” It could be interpreted as white people taking everything but the burden from African-Americans.

[LondonManc]

In a rework of "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter", one person may see cultural appropriation and another person may see cultural appreciation.

By that, I simply mean that too many people take the hump when someone likes something from another culture and copies it in their style. Whether that be music, food, fashion, whatever, the simple fact is that people should be more proud that their hairstyles, tunes, favourite meal is seen as so awesome that other cultures want to give it ago. Cultural appropriation nazis seek division.

[vetran]

Hair styles are contentious for black people for a number of reasons, some historical, some more recent, especially in the USA.

1. Black 'natural' hair was a way for the white slave trade to identify black people as different and inferior.
2. During the slavery era and afterwards, laws were passed that could regulate how some women had to wear or cover their hair.
3. It's been a civil rights issue - workers have been discriminated against and lost their jobs for refusing to cut off their hair or straighten it. This can also happen in schools.
4. It gets fetishised - a lot of black people will tell you how others just come up to them and touch their hair without asking which they find offensive.
5. Elaborate hair was seen as a status symbol in African culture hundreds of years ago and partly why it's still considered important.

But it applies elsewhere. You gave the Japanese silks example and only last year there was a widespread outcry over Kim Kardashian planning to launch an underwear range called Kimono which she dropped after a lot of Japanese people were upset by it.

1. Skin colour and other items have been used to separate and denigrate the Gaijin, Goy, feringhee, kafir, honky, WASP, Whitey etc. Its people not specifically white/black people.

2. During the Muslim age laws are made how women may wear their hair regardless of their religion.

3. Workers have lost their jobs or education due to their hair styles, religious symbols or tattoos. Some of them were Black.

4.You have obviously never been to Tunisia with blonde female children. Strangers walk up and touch their hair without permission. Blonde hair is fetishized there. The Yazidi sex slaves the ISIS scumbags traded were more prized if they had light skin & blue eyes. Its inherent that some people objectify stuff.

5.Elaborate hair and even body piercings were and are a status symbol in pretty much every society.




All the time you insist on fighting for special privileges you undermine the very reasonable request for equality which is all that society can provide.

All the time people lobby for a Black PM all I hear is "I want someone appointed based on the colour of their skin" you know that sounds racist?

[woohoo]

Hair styles are contentious for black people for a number of reasons, some historical, some more recent, especially in the USA.

1. Black 'natural' hair was a way for the white slave trade to identify black people as different and inferior.
2. During the slavery era and afterwards, laws were passed that could regulate how some women had to wear or cover their hair.
3. It's been a civil rights issue - workers have been discriminated against and lost their jobs for refusing to cut off their hair or straighten it. This can also happen in schools.
4. It gets fetishised - a lot of black people will tell you how others just come up to them and touch their hair without asking which they find offensive.
5. Elaborate hair was seen as a status symbol in African culture hundreds of years ago and partly why it's still considered important.

But it applies elsewhere. You gave the Japanese silks example and only last year there was a widespread outcry over Kim Kardashian planning to launch an underwear range called Kimono which she dropped after a lot of Japanese people were upset by it.

I don't believe I'm going to make a comment related to the Kardashians but was it not objected to because she tried to register the Kimono or the specific name as a trademark? In fact dont answer, I don't want to know any more about the Kardashians

[northernladuk]

I can imagine why someone might be be upset having their national dess covering sweaty growlers. That's different and even if she'd done it there wouldn't be rioting and press outrage.

[edison]

Erm.. stupid question but what the F is this cultural appropriation stuff all about when it comes to hair styles? I guess there are many other things but hair styles seem to be particularly contentious.

Why is it offensive to some people that white people have corn rows for example? Surely that's just a part of diversity and is similar to wearing japanese type silks, music styles and different foods?

In the persuit of equality isn't a race 'claiming' something just the opposite..

Makes my head spin.

Hair styles are contentious for black people for a number of reasons, some historical, some more recent, especially in the USA.

1. Black 'natural' hair was a way for the white slave trade to identify black people as different and inferior.
2. During the slavery era and afterwards, laws were passed that could regulate how some women had to wear or cover their hair.
3. It's been a civil rights issue - workers have been discriminated against and lost their jobs for refusing to cut off their hair or straighten it. This can also happen in schools.
4. It gets fetishised - a lot of black people will tell you how others just come up to them and touch their hair without asking which they find offensive.
5. Elaborate hair was seen as a status symbol in African culture hundreds of years ago and partly why it's still considered important.

But it applies elsewhere. You gave the Japanese silks example and only last year there was a widespread outcry over Kim Kardashian planning to launch an underwear range called Kimono which she dropped after a lot of Japanese people were upset by it.

[Zigenare]

So you are claiming them as British because they are successful and rich?

You really should fact check before you start your head wobbling.

#JUSTSAYING

[jayn200]

Erm.. stupid question but what the F is this cultural appropriation stuff all about when it comes to hair styles? I guess there are many other things but hair styles seem to be particularly contentious.

Why is it offensive to some people that white people have corn rows for example? Surely that's just a part of diversity and is similar to wearing japanese type silks, music styles and different foods?

In the persuit of equality isn't a race 'claiming' something just the opposite..

Makes my head spin.

It's weird. It only seems to work one way, as it's normal for back women to mimic non black hair. Regardless women should be able to do whatever they want to their hair if they think it looks good.

[vetran]

Erm.. stupid question but what the F is this cultural appropriation stuff all about when it comes to hair styles? I guess there are many other things but hair styles seem to be particularly contentious.

Why is it offensive to some people that white people have corn rows for example? Surely that's just a part of diversity and is similar to wearing japanese type silks, music styles and different foods?

In the persuit of equality isn't a race 'claiming' something just the opposite..

Makes my head spin.

precisely. Check your white privilege!

[northernladuk]

Erm.. stupid question but what the F is this cultural appropriation stuff all about when it comes to hair styles? I guess there are many other things but hair styles seem to be particularly contentious.

Why is it offensive to some people that white people have corn rows for example? Surely that's just a part of diversity and is similar to wearing japanese type silks, music styles and different foods?

In the persuit of equality isn't a race 'claiming' something just the opposite..

Makes my head spin.

[edison]

Didn't they emigrate as children, so wouldn't it be the UK that has produced two pop stars?

Dua Lipa was born in London, Rita Ora's family moved here when she was a baby.

I meant of Albanian ancestry, not necessarily where they were born.

[woohoo]

So you are claiming them as British because they are successful and rich?

Im not claiming them as British, they are British.

[SueEllen]

I was surprised to find out from an Albanian Kosovan colleague a couple of years ago that Rita Ora was of Albanian origin. I always thought she looked mixed race. And Dua Lipa is of Albanian origin too. Who'd have thought a small country like Albania would produce two such successful pop stars?

Old man!