Reply to: Contract or Perm...

[gnarledcontractor]

[emoji38]. remember I'm from the North as well so those receipts might not amount to much..

Can I have first dibs on any receipts you get on the night as you don't need them anymore

Sent from my SM-G960F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

[northernladuk]

I'll be at the next one for sure to accept any stick that comes my way [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G960F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

Can I have first dibs on any receipts you get on the night as you don't need them anymore

[gnarledcontractor]

I'll be at the next one for sure to accept any stick that comes my way [emoji4]

Result... Well done. You'll still pop in to any CUK Xmas events I hope.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

[northernladuk]

Result... Well done. You'll still pop in to any CUK Xmas events I hope.

[gnarledcontractor]

Yeah so the perm role is definitely the one for me. With the 200 day calculation it comes in at 95% of contract rate including holiday days pension contributions and other extras.. plus its 100% remote.. So given the uncertainty till April 2021, its a clear decision. Thanks all for helpful pointers..

I think also it's easy as a contractor to forget about non-billable days when comparing overall income compared with permiedom.

So, assuming you take 5 or 6 weeks holiday, have had some bench time, furlough (Christmas), maybe time off sick, 7 unpaid days for bank holidays, this might bring you overall invoice able income down.

Only then can you compare with permie life the money aspects. I probably earn 80% of what I was making overall in contracting, taking the last few years into account. But then I was getting lazy/choosy and my skills were not in demand as much, so I knew it was better to throw in the contracting towel. I got fed up with traffic jams, expensive and unreliable trains, getting up early. So took a position at a company that's 20 minute walk away or 5 mins by car. Fed up with agents, fed up with IR35, fed up with constant and silly interview processes, fed up with HMRC. You get the picture.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

[edison]

I moved to perm a few years ago. Currently safely in an interesting and varied job where I work 2 days a week from home (pre Covid) with a 6 figure salary. Annual review this year was probably less than 10 minutes and resulted in them giving me a bonus even though I did not actually qualify as I had not been here long enough.

There are good perm jobs and bad ones.
You need to look at what you want out of life and where you are prepared to compromise.

Exactly this. And there are good organisations and bad organisations. I bet many perms are happier in good organisations compared to contractors in bad ones.

I'm always slightly surprised just how dismissive many contractors on here are of perm roles, often based on having appraisals and the like.

Contract roles can also be crap. Several of the worst roles I've had were contracts. The benefit of course is it's much easier to move on.

But I wonder in maybe the next 5-10 years whether we might see employers becoming more amenable to those people who want to alternate between bouts of contracting and perm roles? Perhaps with a rise in fixed term contracts?

[LondonManc]

I think also it's easy as a contractor to forget about non-billable days when comparing overall income compared with permiedom.

So, assuming you take 5 or 6 weeks holiday, have had some bench time, furlough (Christmas), maybe time off sick, 7 unpaid days for bank holidays, this might bring you overall invoice able income down.

Only then can you compare with permie life the money aspects. I probably earn 80% of what I was making overall in contracting, taking the last few years into account. But then I was getting lazy/choosy and my skills were not in demand as much, so I knew it was better to throw in the contracting towel. I got fed up with traffic jams, expensive and unreliable trains, getting up early. So took a position at a company that's 20 minute walk away or 5 mins by car. Fed up with agents, fed up with IR35, fed up with constant and silly interview processes, fed up with HMRC. You get the picture.

Agree with all of this. Some clown on here was calculating contractor income based on 250 days as a comparison!

I've always budgeted for 200 and taken anything else as a bonus. Then you've got the hassle and anxiety of finding new contracts to factor in, which is probably the biggest difference. You need to become immune to not being extended, the occasional non-fault early finish because of politics at higher levels, etc. It will happen and there will be no review process, no HR to put your case to, no grievance procedure, etc. You're out, that's it. If it happens, react professionally, make sure that you're able to get all outstanding timesheets approved there and then and calmly exit.

[DimPrawn]

I think also it's easy as a contractor to forget about non-billable days when comparing overall income compared with permiedom.

So, assuming you take 5 or 6 weeks holiday, have had some bench time, furlough (Christmas), maybe time off sick, 7 unpaid days for bank holidays, this might bring you overall invoice able income down.

Only then can you compare with permie life the money aspects. I probably earn 80% of what I was making overall in contracting, taking the last few years into account. But then I was getting lazy/choosy and my skills were not in demand as much, so I knew it was better to throw in the contracting towel. I got fed up with traffic jams, expensive and unreliable trains, getting up early. So took a position at a company that's 20 minute walk away or 5 mins by car. Fed up with agents, fed up with IR35, fed up with constant and silly interview processes, fed up with HMRC. You get the picture.

[MyUserName]

Just finished a contract on Friday that lasted 4.5 years with various extensions but putting in the hours.
Probably not taken enough breaks during this time and with coronavirus on top, I woke up this
morning feeling like I should be doing something but for once in a long time - I don't have to actually
do anything! However, the question is, I've been offered a perm role and a contract role. I like them both equally
but I'm inclined to accept the perm role as there is going to be a bloodbath from now until April 5th.
I've seen a couple of people on this forum do exactly this - so how has it been? Have you adjusted to empire building,
politics, pointless meetings etc, or has it been fairly painless?

I moved to perm a few years ago. Currently safely in an interesting and varied job where I work 2 days a week from home (pre Covid) with a 6 figure salary. Annual review this year was probably less than 10 minutes and resulted in them giving me a bonus even though I did not actually qualify as I had not been here long enough.

There are good perm jobs and bad ones.
You need to look at what you want out of life and where you are prepared to compromise.

[LondonManc]

I would add that it isn't just Covid, but also the upcoming IR35 reforms which has made getting an outside IR35 gig much harder with large clients.

Inside IR35 vs perm only makes sense if the rates are good and cover bench time, large number of paid holidays, sickness, pension, private medical packages typically part of the permie setup.

Some might add Brexit to the list of woes. I couldn't possible comment

Fair comment on IR35 - COVID has happened post my decision so was never a factor.

The IR35 reforms pretty much excluded me from taking stuff in London but with working from home at least two days a week, they would become viable again. Longer term I can see a mix of Plan A and Plan C (albeit with Plan A evolving into any sort of viable contracting) and Plan C of pursuing something non-IT related with Mrs LM.

[DimPrawn]

I can only refer to pre-Covid times as that is the only fair barometer and it was fine. I think you have to accept that you either have appraisals or you have contract negotiations and far less security. The work itself is no different as long as the role is similar. The mindset is different as you now have to accept that you're part and parcel, behave as a permie, etc. I don't miss the travel and I do. I don't miss the 4am alarm on a Monday to get the early train to London, or being away from home for 3-4 nights a week. I don't miss paying five quid for a pint. I do miss certain people down there, warmer weather and a better choice of food.

The problem is that IT as a whole is changing and we won't know what the best outcome will be for a few years (my decision to go back perm). Plan C, by the way, is to get out of IT completely but that wouldn't happen until after LM Jr has finished uni and got his career up and running. Would I go back contracting if I was without a job and a contract offer dropped in my inbox? Absolutely. Would I do things differently? Absolutely. I'd relocate base to the south west, within easy reach of Bath, Bristol, etc., which also makes London far less of a ball ache and decent inside IR35 gigs still acceptable.

I would add that it isn't just Covid, but also the upcoming IR35 reforms which has made getting an outside IR35 gig much harder with large clients.

Inside IR35 vs perm only makes sense if the rates are good and cover bench time, large number of paid holidays, sickness, pension, private medical packages typically part of the permie setup.

Some might add Brexit to the list of woes. I couldn't possible comment

[LondonManc]

Right... You were one of the contributors I was alluding to before - and the one I was hoping would respond.
I think you moved to perm - and IIRC that it was a good decision. Is that still the case?

I can only refer to pre-Covid times as that is the only fair barometer and it was fine. I think you have to accept that you either have appraisals or you have contract negotiations and far less security. The work itself is no different as long as the role is similar. The mindset is different as you now have to accept that you're part and parcel, behave as a permie, etc. I don't miss the travel and I do. I don't miss the 4am alarm on a Monday to get the early train to London, or being away from home for 3-4 nights a week. I don't miss paying five quid for a pint. I do miss certain people down there, warmer weather and a better choice of food.

The problem is that IT as a whole is changing and we won't know what the best outcome will be for a few years (my decision to go back perm). Plan C, by the way, is to get out of IT completely but that wouldn't happen until after LM Jr has finished uni and got his career up and running. Would I go back contracting if I was without a job and a contract offer dropped in my inbox? Absolutely. Would I do things differently? Absolutely. I'd relocate base to the south west, within easy reach of Bath, Bristol, etc., which also makes London far less of a ball ache and decent inside IR35 gigs still acceptable.

[gables]

I went permie in January which I have to say so far has worked out well, this was off the back of 7 months off by choice. I had a couple of contract interviews lined up when this came along, but given this was a local role, decent enough salary\benefits etc thought I'd give it a go. And then covid came along and to be honest I'm now in position to ride it out and wfh full time. Looking to polish skills and see what gives next year, might return to contracting as it's not a one way street.

As to office politics etc just kick back and enjoy the fun :-)

[gnarledcontractor]

Plan C is looming large, let's leave it at that.

Right... You were one of the contributors I was alluding to before - and the one I was hoping would respond.
I think you moved to perm - and IIRC that it was a good decision. Is that still the case?

[TwoWolves]

Pffffft.

I'm turning down permie and contract work daily. You need the skillz.