Reply to: The Granuaid will rise again

[minestrone]

Not looking for a way out for anything. Just interested to see the articles. Sorry to disappoint.

"did you see the gas chambers?"

[Old Greg]

You looking for a way out for the Guardian been built on Old Slave money as suggested? That didn't really help Colston,Rhodes & Gladstone did it?


As suggested the British library should have a copy they were supposed to keep a copy every major newspaper.

Not looking for a way out for anything. Just interested to see the articles. Sorry to disappoint.

[vetran]

I doubt it is untrue. I'd like to see the articles though - it's interesting. I'm guessing they must be somewhere.

You looking for a way out for the Guardian been built on Old Slave money as suggested? That didn't really help Colston,Rhodes & Gladstone did it?


As suggested the British library should have a copy they were supposed to keep a copy every major newspaper.

[minestrone]

Not a fan of statues of prominent slave traders or similar being left where they are but maybe there's another factor that needs to be considered before we go too far, the impact on tourism. Removing famous statues could significantly affect small businesses like shops and restaurants in some areas, many of which are owned by ethnic minorities.

"I don't know much about architecture but I know what I don't like"

[xoggoth]

Not a fan of statues of prominent slave traders or similar being left where they are but maybe there's another factor that needs to be considered before we go too far, the impact on tourism. Removing famous statues could significantly affect small businesses like shops and restaurants in some areas, many of which are owned by ethnic minorities.

[minestrone]

I suspect the core reality of his thought people is: "black people are inferior." Of course there is a reasonable chance that this is rooted in a deep-seated sense of inadequacy on mr donut's part.

Yes, you have got a poster for being a racist on "I suspect" and "reasonable chance".

Cut the tulip.

[Old Greg]

Hardly comparable really, is it? You like to post drivel and contrived exaggerated claims regularly here, for some as yet unknown reason.

Statues of former leaders and people who have benefited society makes sense. If a statue is of somebody whose main business was the slave trade, with little other societal contribution, it makes sense to have a discussion about what sort of statutes should remain up and what criteria are required to put up new statues. There are certain unique activities that we should not now be celebrating and this statute downfall has raised a valid query of the way in which we progress how to no longer celebrate individuals by having a statute of them remain. There's a good reason Jimmy Saville's statue was taken down, yet you haven't yet mentioned that this wasn't ok. "He raised lots of cash for charities! He wasn't just a paedophile, raise his statute again! You can't change history!"

Many people in Bristol did try to start the process but the local counselors repeatedly refused to engage in discussions, shutting the conversations down whenever possible. An explanatory plaque was even stalled and then cancelled by a Tory rep, after it had almost been agreed by other parties.

That isn't listening to logic and rationale but is instead suggesting this:

"Any statue that exists now will always exist and there should be no due process to bring it down."

Doesn't sound very democratic to me; shut down discussions and shutdown any request - even for a basic information plaque.

Why are people so averse to progress and change? Society has always changed and we don't persecute LGBTQ+ people anymore - they're just people, like you and I. The exact same arguments were used for homophobia in the 60's and 70's are being used to redirect a valid conversation about a statute that could be in a museum, rather than in a celebratory position, as other worthwhile statutes in Bristol attest by their prominent position.

I suspect the core reality of your thought process is: "this is too complex, I don't understand it, please can everybody stop talking about this and let's just have zero change, ever."

I suspect the core reality of his thought people is: "black people are inferior." Of course there is a reasonable chance that this is rooted in a deep-seated sense of inadequacy on mr donut's part.

[rogerfederer]

i hear the romans were partial to a few slaves, so can we just remove every feckin statue in rome and what about the month of july lets just get rid of that too

Hardly comparable really, is it? You like to post drivel and contrived exaggerated claims regularly here, for some as yet unknown reason.

Statues of former leaders and people who have benefited society makes sense. If a statue is of somebody whose main business was the slave trade, with little other societal contribution, it makes sense to have a discussion about what sort of statutes should remain up and what criteria are required to put up new statues. There are certain unique activities that we should not now be celebrating and this statute downfall has raised a valid query of the way in which we progress how to no longer celebrate individuals by having a statute of them remain. There's a good reason Jimmy Saville's statue was taken down, yet you haven't yet mentioned that this wasn't ok. "He raised lots of cash for charities! He wasn't just a paedophile, raise his statute again! You can't change history!"

Many people in Bristol did try to start the process but the local counselors repeatedly refused to engage in discussions, shutting the conversations down whenever possible. An explanatory plaque was even stalled and then cancelled by a Tory rep, after it had almost been agreed by other parties.

That isn't listening to logic and rationale but is instead suggesting this:

"Any statue that exists now will always exist and there should be no due process to bring it down."

Doesn't sound very democratic to me; shut down discussions and shutdown any request - even for a basic information plaque.

Why are people so averse to progress and change? Society has always changed and we don't persecute LGBTQ+ people anymore - they're just people, like you and I. The exact same arguments were used for homophobia in the 60's and 70's are being used to redirect a valid conversation about a statute that could be in a museum, rather than in a celebratory position, as other worthwhile statutes in Bristol attest by their prominent position.

I suspect the core reality of your thought process is: "this is too complex, I don't understand it, please can everybody stop talking about this and let's just have zero change, ever."

[rogerfederer]

Gordon Bennet Vetran. Don't start dragging up the obscure past, the lefties do quite enough of that. Let's focus on today's problems.

Interestingly, the left and centrist protests seem to rely on a fair representation of society protesting against atrocities. The right wing protests seem to involve participants being ticked off as white to attend. Ironically the right wing press like to mention the former as 'rioters', rather than protestors with 99.99% being peaceful non-looters non-fighting people. The latter don't get much coverage by the right wing press nor analysis of the fact most, as in Scotland, seem to be Sevco (ex-Rangers football club) fans and ultras.

[minestrone]

So the Russians had the Tzars, then they shot of them and they got communists, then they got rid of them and got a dictator. Continually making the wrong move. Most European countries have neo fascist parties polling double figures.

Democracy, as a sustainable equitable model of government has only really been done by Britain and British derivate parliaments.

[mrdonuts]

i hear the romans were partial to a few slaves, so can we just remove every feckin statue in rome and what about the month of july lets just get rid of that too

[minestrone]

There is a difference between forgetting about slavery and not honouring slave traders with statues. You can take whatever you view about the latter, but don't confuse the two.

"I usually just use one strawman in a post, but, I have a theory, that by using 2, my bullltulip might be more believable"

Things you don't hear very often...

"I was listening to some Isaac Hayes the other day, and, you know, I had forgotten about that whole slavery stuff"

or

"The local slave trader appreciation society is having a collection to get a new statue of a slave trader in the town square"

[Old Greg]

Where does it all stop?

People have used people in varying forms of slavery and exploitation for thousands of years.

Situations improve, people improve. Do things get torn down so that we can forget about the past and thus repeat it?

We're not slaves but we're being manipulated and exploited by the system for the benefit of others. The press and those behind them are now getting to grips with how to manipulate social media rather than just via their websites and newspapers. "Ignorance is bliss" - a throwaway whimsical thought back to when we didn't know so didn't care or Psychocandy's motto?

There is a difference between forgetting about slavery and not honouring slave traders with statues. You can take whatever you view about the latter, but don't confuse the two.

[LondonManc]

Where does it all stop?

People have used people in varying forms of slavery and exploitation for thousands of years.

Situations improve, people improve. Do things get torn down so that we can forget about the past and thus repeat it?

We're not slaves but we're being manipulated and exploited by the system for the benefit of others. The press and those behind them are now getting to grips with how to manipulate social media rather than just via their websites and newspapers. "Ignorance is bliss" - a throwaway whimsical thought back to when we didn't know so didn't care or Psychocandy's motto?

[BlueSharp]

https://digitalcommons.unomaha.edu/c...xt=studentwork

The Manchester Guardian and the American Civil War