Reply to: Coronovirus - Do You Think Your Government is Doing a Good Job?

[Scoobos]

Touche.

I mentioned the aussie show, just because they are massively racist towards Asians, or they were when I lived and worked there.



We are still forgetting about the MONTH of Feb aren't we? As the guy from Lancet quite rightly pointed out.

Talking about January as a reason to not start a lockdown until the last week of march (whilst 1 week prior asking people not to go to the pub, or restaurants etc, but leaving them open with no option to claim insurance etc) , when Italy was modelling for all of us - is re-writing history at a rate we shouldn't be comfortable with.

We did not act rapidly enough and there should be a proper debrief of this when its over. But there wont be , because we'll just buy the BS and say we are sick of talking about it now.

Even today, still - we've people going to work on HS2 and in construction sites, and people coming into the UK from infected zones without even being tested.

We aren't enforcing anything because the horrible truth is that our Public services were at the point of near capacity doing day to day. Our "Border Force" is pointless.

How can this be a good response? We've also mocked Iran for their health minister getting ill, and the visiting second homes - but WHY is Boris in a hospital bed trying to run the response, its infeasible to take that seriously or think that you can have full confidence in measured decisions. Why is Matt Hancock out and working when hes breaking his own self isolation rules, same with Whitty. Boris has spread this all over the damn place himself.

How the hell we can say "herd immunity" with a disease we are told kills at least 1% , and that ever be a valid stategy is beyond me . "People will die" was Boris's first speech .

We are assuming that the general populace has the same level of intelligence. Morons will be morons and do need authority - that's why we have a police force and public services , to protect people by enforcement - otherwise why not rely on Anarchy>

People should be able to excersise and carry on in a very brave, but arguably British way - but people who take the micky SHOULD be locked up and fined, its not nanny state - its LAW and ORDER - not anarchy, which doesnt work and is proved not to here - we cannot self police and shouldn't be expected to. Who does?

Anyhoo, just stoking debate - I'm not foaming at the mouth like these posts might show. But i am irratated by the fact that with the internet and with all the information we have, we still play politics at a time like this. The response was weak, slow and doesn't show a great deal of forward thinking , meanwhile we are saying in papers that we've ONLY had 4 health workers die, look at italy they've got 60 (yeah, they are 2 - 3 further down the line, with exactly the same trends) , but we don't need 'nanny state' .

<end rant and relax>

[LondonManc]

Posting a link to an australian TV channel about the behaviour of the chinese doesn't really work , on many levels.

China have fudged the figures and also have witheld stuff in DECEMBER or at the latest very early January.

Idiot.

Jan. 14: WHO announces Chinese authorities have seen "no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus."

[Whorty]

I hear you, and that would work IF we'd have said that in Mid March - I'm banging this drum merely cos I'm personally concerned that we are already re-writing history and denying the obvious intention of our government, in the first two weeks of March to fly in the face of world advice and delay the advice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lock everyone in like Wuhan etc, but that we delayed for far too long, for clearly political motive.

If we were first, fine, but the writing was on the wall in Mid Feb.

As individuals we could have acted differently based on what we were seeing. Just because the government didn't enforce a lockdown earlier, it doesn't mean we could have behaved differently, and yet, we were still seeing the likes of the Cheltenham horse racing - the government didn't force the race-goers to attend.

I don't want to live in a police state; they're acting like jumped up gastapo already, so imagine what they'd be like with even more powers!

[Scoobos]

I hear you, and that would work IF we'd have said that in Mid March - I'm banging this drum merely cos I'm personally concerned that we are already re-writing history and denying the obvious intention of our government, in the first two weeks of March to fly in the face of world advice and delay the advice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lock everyone in like Wuhan etc, but that we delayed for far too long, for clearly political motive.

If we were first, fine, but the writing was on the wall in Mid Feb.

[Whorty]

When it comes to public health - getting "support of the general public" is not important.

Having the ability to mandate and enforce , with this amount of death - is totally ok.

Once people start seeing more people die than those who died in 9/11 (and look how much we paid after that with our response) - you soon get public support.

That would have taken 2 weeks. Only my opinion, as I was following this from Jan, we locked down ourselves on 7th March and the Gvt should have done the same , at least on the weekend of the 13th - everyone knew what was happening by then. This delay and head in the ground approach , has really put London at far greater a risk than it needed to be.

Watching that video, where's the excuse for not testing people on flights, for allowing football fans in from Italy. I'll reign it it again now, but this was not the response the video above promised. We were prepared according to that.

You're complaining that we don't live in a nanny state, with martial law like controls. The government advised what we should be doing, the public chose to ignore that advice. Sometimes you can't help the stupid!

As was posted earlier ... don't worry about what you can't control, it will only make you more stressed and stress is not good with this virus.

[Scoobos]

If they had acted more quickly, they might not have got the support of the public. They have opted for lightest touch at last possible moment.

And look at the economic damage being done now. Many still resent the lockdown and I totally get that. Its an incredibly fine balancing act.

When it comes to public health - getting "support of the general public" is not important.

Having the ability to mandate and enforce , with this amount of death - is totally ok.

Once people start seeing more people die than those who died in 9/11 (and look how much we paid after that with our response) - you soon get public support.

That would have taken 2 weeks. Only my opinion, as I was following this from Jan, we locked down ourselves on 7th March and the Gvt should have done the same , at least on the weekend of the 13th - everyone knew what was happening by then. This delay and head in the ground approach , has really put London at far greater a risk than it needed to be.

Watching that video, where's the excuse for not testing people on flights, for allowing football fans in from Italy. I'll reign it it again now, but this was not the response the video above promised. We were prepared according to that.

[BrilloPad]

Resurrecting this old bugger, triggered by so many people , my wider family included, going on about how good a job Whitty / Boris et al have done.

Let's just rewind a month and listen to this BS and compare it to what we've done.

YouTube


A pandemic report believed that 99.9% travel restrictions weren't worth it because it would just delay by 2 months - then they have a "delay strategy" and dont impose any travel restrictions.. Just madness.

So no they haven't done a good job, they've just used words and acted too slowly and continue to. You couldn't plan a controlled intentional release any better than setting it loose in a city as dense as London - to keep trains etc running for anyone other than Key workers with ID and (dreaming) PPE and hourly decontamination like the eastern world has done; has definitely killed people.

And WTF is Matt Hancock doing, by his own rules he shouldn't be out the house yet, he's had symptoms.

If they had acted more quickly, they might not have got the support of the public. They have opted for lightest touch at last possible moment.

And look at the economic damage being done now. Many still resent the lockdown and I totally get that. Its an incredibly fine balancing act.

[Scoobos]

Resurrecting this old bugger, triggered by so many people , my wider family included, going on about how good a job Whitty / Boris et al have done.

Let's just rewind a month and listen to this BS and compare it to what we've done.

YouTube


A pandemic report believed that 99.9% travel restrictions weren't worth it because it would just delay by 2 months - then they have a "delay strategy" and dont impose any travel restrictions.. Just madness.

So no they haven't done a good job, they've just used words and acted too slowly and continue to. You couldn't plan a controlled intentional release any better than setting it loose in a city as dense as London - to keep trains etc running for anyone other than Key workers with ID and (dreaming) PPE and hourly decontamination like the eastern world has done; has definitely killed people.

And WTF is Matt Hancock doing, by his own rules he shouldn't be out the house yet, he's had symptoms.

[Paralytic]

They knew about them in 2000. And left them open until 2008. Then closed retrospectively.

Loan schemes were worse. HMRC knew about them in 1999. Not closed until 2017.

"Knew about" and "endorse" are different things. The original post said HMRC endorsed the schemes.

HMRC are such *****s. The latest attack on contractors, even delayed until 2021, is just obscene.

Can't argue with that.

[BrilloPad]

In what regards did HMRC endorse the schemes?

They knew about them in 2000. And left them open until 2008. Then closed retrospectively.

Loan schemes were worse. HMRC knew about them in 1999. Not closed until 2017.

Oddly this thread has cheered me up. It has reminded me to fight HMRC with every breath I can.

HMRC are such *****s. The latest attack on contractors, even delayed until 2021, is just obscene. At least I saw the writing on the wall - I got out last year. Lovely permie job - got a huge bonus on Tuesday too! Big pension contributions. I negotiated while I had the upper hand. Now my employer is picking up permies really cheap.

[darmstadt]

Contrast and compare, you could only start applying on Monday...

Authorities in Germany have so far received 1.1 million applications for “immediate financial help” from self-employed and small businesses.One billion euros has already been paid to them and a total of 1.8 billion euros worth of payments has been approved, and is due to be received any day.

Most payments are going to restaurants, hairdressers and cosmetic salons and business consultants, far less to craftspeople and construction workers, who are still able to work as long as they can keep the physical distancing rules.

Self-employed people have turned to social media to express their amazement at how unbureaucratic the access to the funds has been, just days after the measures were passed as emergency legislation in Germany’s parliament, the Bundestag.

Freelancers, self-employed and small companies are eligible for the funds. Those with up to five workers can get a one-off payment of 9,000 euros, for businesses with up to 10 workers, it’s 15,000 euros.The monies do not have to be paid back.

Haven't put my one in yet though :-)

[darmstadt]

We probably have one of the strongest understandings of the supply chain of anywhere in the world because of the preparations we did for a no-deal Brexit, and we keep them constantly under review.

This is a totally different situation, the supply chain doesn't exist anymore and every one is after the same things. If you are so ready why are you so much in the deep do do?

[Old Greg]

You really should have used Old Greg’s Dutch Antilles scheme

'Scheme' is such an ugly word.

[Scoobos]

I'm cross posting a bit here, but think this answers the question from my view:


Coronavirus outbreak FAQs: what you can and can't do - GOV.UK

They are saying only key workers to work at certain points, but if you read that, it clearly says - No, if you cant work from home, go to work on non essential tasks. (5 and 6 in the link above)

That's typical of the management of this whole thing though. I'd rather all (bar key workers).

Guidance for employers and businesses on coronavirus (COVID-19) - GOV.UK
What to do if someone develops Covid-19 symptoms on site : - if you are with someone sick at work, if you help them - don't go home, just wash yer hands and get back to work, then go home and infect your family.

Oh and if you go home, there's no obligation for your employer to pay you sick pay or treat you compassionately: (sick pay, "what to do if an employee needs time off to look after someone" "certification" ).

That's just one story to the public and one to employers.

I know of 1 large employer already who's taking money, furloughing staff and reducing their salary by 15% and making them sign , its all legal. Either write off a 15% reduction in benefits and salary , to get furloughed for the 80% - or get fired. Meanwhile the company is doing better than its done in a long time due to increased sales and reduced costs!





Crackerjack:

[MrMarkyMark]

In what regards did HMRC vendors the schemes?

The government has backed down on original time frame for loan charge compliance giving taxpayers who signed up to schemes approved by HMRC before 2015 greater leniency and offering five-year time to pay arrangements

Government waters down loan charge rules | Accountancy Daily

Hence why the retrospective taxation is wrong, in fact it is breaking rules stated in the Magna Carta, AFAIK.