Reply to: The cover up of crimes after the Spanish Civil War

[Zigenare]

Who cares.

They are dead now like every communist should be.

Strangled with the entrails of the last Priest.

[minestrone]

When you say 'the Communists', do you mean the democratic government, the subsequent Maquis resistance movements or both?

Who cares.

They are dead now like every communist should be.

[Old Greg]

No I'm not. The Communists did not go into retirement during Franco's tenure. In the "grown-up" world there are no good guys, you need to learn this.


P.S. I have a Spanish wife and family over there, so I get to hear arguments from people there.

When you say 'the Communists', do you mean the democratic government, the subsequent Maquis resistance movements or both?

[JohntheBike]

One difference is that in a democracy like the UK, the media can uncover and report on scandals, and government can be held to account.

In Franco's Spain, not so much.

yes, it's the same for any totalitarian society, whether fascist or communist.

The UK civil war is long enough ago for us not to suffer the same issues. However, the American civil war still seems to cast a shadow over the Southern States.

[TwoWolves]

You seem to be conflating atrocities during the Civil War with severe human rights abuses during the post Civil War Franco regime.

No I'm not. The Communists did not go into retirement during Franco's tenure. In the "grown-up" world there are no good guys, you need to learn this.


P.S. I have a Spanish wife and family over there, so I get to hear arguments from people there.

[Old Greg]

yes, and I guess there are many other issues being covered up, like the orphans being sent to Australia etc. At least with the Internet and modern communication systems, events like these should be picked up early and quashed. However, we are hearing every week about one or other scandal in the NHS, especially the bad blood scandal, which a good friend of mine suffers from. Some of the issues he tells me beggar belief. My wife and I may very well have been victims, but we choose to let sleeping dogs lie. There's no point in turning stones over after over 45 years The bottom line is that the establishment of any country will suppress any issues that are an embarrassment to them and the UK is no different.

One difference is that in a democracy like the UK, the media can uncover and report on scandals, and government can be held to account.

In Franco's Spain, not so much.

[JohntheBike]

The UK had pretty unsavoury church run (unmarried) Mother and Baby homes into the 1980s.

yes, and I guess there are many other issues being covered up, like the orphans being sent to Australia etc. At least with the Internet and modern communication systems, events like these should be picked up early and quashed. However, we are hearing every week about one or other scandal in the NHS, especially the bad blood scandal, which a good friend of mine suffers from. Some of the issues he tells me beggar belief. My wife and I may very well have been victims, but we choose to let sleeping dogs lie. There's no point in turning stones over after over 45 years The bottom line is that the establishment of any country will suppress any issues that are an embarrassment to them and the UK is no different.

[Old Greg]

yes, and the abduction of babies from "unsuitable" mothers continued into the 1980's with support from doctors and the Catholic Church.

The West was complicit in the post civil war atrocities as they saw Franco as a bastion against Communism, which they feared would engulf Spain.

The UK had pretty unsavoury church run (unmarried) Mother and Baby homes into the 1980s.

[Old Greg]

This is the problem with the winners writing history.

Atrocities were committed by both sides, civil wars are like that. The Communists regularly planted bombs that killed civilians that included children. There was a Spanish TV program a while back about them murdering the nuns in a convent because they had the temerity to feed opposing fighters who came to them begging for food.

At this very moment Spain's government is lurching to the far left; hardly a day goes by without them blaming their ineptitude on the ghost of Franco. I wouldn't be surprised if we live to see yet another civil war in Spain, southern Europe seems to need strong men - whatever their political leanings.

You seem to be conflating atrocities during the Civil War with severe human rights abuses during the post Civil War Franco regime.

[TwoWolves]

yes, and the abduction of babies from "unsuitable" mothers continued into the 1980's with support from doctors and the Catholic Church.

The West was complicit in the post civil war atrocities as they saw Franco as a bastion against Communism, which they feared would engulf Spain.

This is the problem with the winners writing history.

Atrocities were committed by both sides, civil wars are like that. The Communists regularly planted bombs that killed civilians that included children. There was a Spanish TV program a while back about them murdering the nuns in a convent because they had the temerity to feed opposing fighters who came to them begging for food.

At this very moment Spain's government is lurching to the far left; hardly a day goes by without them blaming their ineptitude on the ghost of Franco. I wouldn't be surprised if we live to see yet another civil war in Spain, southern Europe seems to need strong men - whatever their political leanings.

[JohntheBike]

What was the program called? I'd like to watch it.

Facing Franco's Crimes: The Silence of Others

BBC 4 Monday 22:00

[Uncle Albert]

yes, and the abduction of babies from "unsuitable" mothers continued into the 1980's with support from doctors and the Catholic Church.

The West was complicit in the post civil war atrocities as they saw Franco as a bastion against Communism, which they feared would engulf Spain.

What was the program called? I'd like to watch it.

[JohntheBike]

Hard to imagine now but Spain was still a dictatorship until 1975 and their chosen method of capital punishment was death by garotting.

And you needed a visa to get in as well. I can still clearly remember driving over the border from France into No Man's Land with my parents and the soldiers who very firmly clasped their hands on their rifles when they saw our car approaching the Spanish border post.

Hard to imagine now but Spain was still a dictatorship until 1975

yes, and the abduction of babies from "unsuitable" mothers continued into the 1980's with support from doctors and the Catholic Church.

The West was complicit in the post civil war atrocities as they saw Franco as a bastion against Communism, which they feared would engulf Spain.

[Old Greg]

They weren't jailed for merely holding an opposing political views, which would make them political prisoners.

They weren't jailed for holding an illegal referendum.

They were jailed for act of sedition, declaring independence, against the Spanish constitution and against the wishes of the population of Catalonia.

My cousin lives in Catalonia, according to him there isn't really that much support for independence, definitely not a majority. Puigdemont and his cronies decided to roll the dice and failed miserably.

None of that means they're not political prisoners.

HTH

[vetran]

Chunts like you feeling me up and not taking "No!" for an answer. Hth.

hmmm why do I have this in my brain now?