Reply to: My ClientCo Just Blanketed Everyone Inside

[cojak]

For umbrella roles (so not technically inside IR35) it is possible to get some expenses. It's only some umbrellas (and some are FCSA accredited). T&S changes came in in 2016 which mean the only way expenses can be offset on gross rate is where they are of fixed value and the worker is outside of SDC. It's a bit of a pain as if you don't use the expenses you 'lose' the allowance and anything above the set amount has to be claimed on a tax return but expenses are still possible via umbrella.

Right you are. Thanks for that CL.

[ComplianceLady]

For inside IR35, no expenses allowed at all after April 6th.

For umbrella roles (so not technically inside IR35) it is possible to get some expenses. It's only some umbrellas (and some are FCSA accredited). T&S changes came in in 2016 which mean the only way expenses can be offset on gross rate is where they are of fixed value and the worker is outside of SDC. It's a bit of a pain as if you don't use the expenses you 'lose' the allowance and anything above the set amount has to be claimed on a tax return but expenses are still possible via umbrella.

[Zigenare]

Cryrstall umbrella went bust


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Not the only one! Solomon Williams couldn't be arsed paying the VAT on one of his Umbrella escapades in the past! I lost ~£6k others lost more.

[DeludedKitten]

you can make an informed decision on how you wish to continue your assignment with Vodafone beyond this date"

Interesting that they are assuming you want to continue with them. Personally I'd leave it until the contract runs out and walk away without saying a word.

Hopefully just after they've resourced the role with you in it.

[LetterBox]

I wonder just how many of these BigCo's that put everyone onto payroll will be surprised when those same people who used to be busy delivering as contractors suddenly start to behave more like permanent resources who have the safety net of sick days, can't be arsed etc etc.

I've always found the constant cycle of contract renewal discussions to be an excellent source of motivation for delivering.

If I was going to get paid regardless I can't help but think my output would go down considerably.

I can't be the only one thinking i'd serve up a big dose of F.U. to the respective Company going forward??

As a general point, this is absolutely true.

The use of contractors has gone way beyond the need for a genuine skilled task, businesses use them to bolster their general needs. When push comes to shove, businesses cannot justify to HMRC most of the contracts they offer to contractors. They have to either declare inside or stop using PSC, makes absolute sense to stop using PSCs. It's handy for businesses that these contractors have nowhere to run, people need to earn and will accept what is being offered.

While there are genuine contractors (or people in general) who take absolute pride in offering a great service, most of the contractors go above and beyond for reasons of not wanting to have the contract cut short from a good rate, appreciate you're business is invoicing a good rate, and to ensure that client relations are excellent when you do finish the contract for future business references. The client knows a contractor WILL deliver the pieces of work they have been contracted to provide.

Once you become a permie, that all changes, to continue the excellent service you either need to just be that way inclined (most people in general are not) or have a reason to shine as a permie, so career ladder. As a career ladder is not something that really enters a contractors mind, the motivation to shine has gone.

Personally, I'm happy to earn more contracting and delivering on time and put in whatever hours needed to get the contracted works done, to ensure the client is happy. Client is happy, I'm happy Win!

As a perm it'll be soul destroying without motivation, to sit there with your contractor mind set and watch others around you go off sick for a week, come back to then discuss the 2 week holiday they are about to book and optimising the dates to con-incide with training they don't need before they then take a 2 hours lunch and Costa coffee chat. You'll need to keep your skills fresh, go on the training courses that as an experienced contractor you know will future proof you a few years ahead of time, and be just a little better than the person next to you. As the person next to you wont be pulling up trees, neither will you be.

Been contracting 20 years, I have always said permie work is retirement for me, permies laugh, I think contractors know the truth. I have permie friends who are with large companies that are responsible for the hiring of various levels of IT staff, productivity is their fear, not a failure in being able to recruit staff.

[cojak]

The times I worked through an Umbrella I was permitted to claim expenses deducted from the gross value of the invoice. What's changed on that front?

For inside IR35, no expenses allowed at all after April 6th.

[GhostofTarbera]

I wonder just how many of these BigCo's that put everyone onto payroll will be surprised when those same people who used to be busy delivering as contractors suddenly start to behave more like permanent resources who have the safety net of sick days, can't be arsed etc etc.

I've always found the constant cycle of contract renewal discussions to be an excellent source of motivation for delivering.

If I was going to get paid regardless I can't help but think my output would go down considerably.

I can't be the only one thinking i'd serve up a big dose of F.U. to the respective Company going forward??

Exactly this

A few guys I know that have gone permie say they are out the door at 5pm and refuse to work weekends (as contractors it was 7pm and working most weekends)




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[GhostofTarbera]

The times I worked through an Umbrella I was permitted to claim expenses deducted from the gross value of the invoice. What's changed on that front?

Cryrstall umbrella went bust


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[Zigenare]

And good luck getting anyone to work in Newbury without expenses, Vodafone...

The times I worked through an Umbrella I was permitted to claim expenses deducted from the gross value of the invoice. What's changed on that front?

[cojak]

That's Darren-Test screwed. What's he going to do with all those pound coins and envelopes now?

That made Oi larf!

[northernladuk]

That's Darren-Test screwed. What's he going to do with all those pound coins and envelopes now?

[cojak]

Just had confirmation via agent e-mail cascade,


"Vodafone will no longer engage with individuals providing their services via Personal Services Companies beyond 28th February 2020. Vodafone will only engage with PAYE or Umbrella workers, who will be subject to PAYE deductions for Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions.

For all existing arrangements workers MUST be transitioned to a compliant solution i.e. PAYE or Umbrella by 28 February 2020.

What does this mean to you?
If your contract end date is beyond 28th February 2020 you should start to consider the different engagement options available to you now, so that you can make an informed decision on how you wish to continue your assignment with Vodafone beyond this date"



I would imagine a lot of the vendors ( Ericsson / NSN / Fujitsu etc ) to the major fixed line & mobile Telco's will now also follow suit...........

And good luck getting anyone to work in Newbury without expenses, Vodafone...

[DimPrawn]

I wonder just how many of these BigCo's that put everyone onto payroll will be surprised when those same people who used to be busy delivering as contractors suddenly start to behave more like permanent resources who have the safety net of sick days, can't be arsed etc etc.

I've always found the constant cycle of contract renewal discussions to be an excellent source of motivation for delivering.

If I was going to get paid regardless I can't help but think my output would go down considerably.

I can't be the only one thinking i'd serve up a big dose of F.U. to the respective Company going forward??

I do the absolute minimum, take as much as I can get, work the minimum hours possible. It's quite nice actually kicking back compared to IT Contracting and not giving a flying ****, you get paid no matter what you deliver.

[OrangeSquash]

I wonder just how many of these BigCo's that put everyone onto payroll will be surprised when those same people who used to be busy delivering as contractors suddenly start to behave more like permanent resources who have the safety net of sick days, can't be arsed etc etc.

I've always found the constant cycle of contract renewal discussions to be an excellent source of motivation for delivering.

If I was going to get paid regardless I can't help but think my output would go down considerably.

I can't be the only one thinking i'd serve up a big dose of F.U. to the respective Company going forward??

[DimPrawn]

Just had confirmation via agent e-mail cascade,


"Vodafone will no longer engage with individuals providing their services via Personal Services Companies beyond 28th February 2020. Vodafone will only engage with PAYE or Umbrella workers, who will be subject to PAYE deductions for Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions.

For all existing arrangements workers MUST be transitioned to a compliant solution i.e. PAYE or Umbrella by 28 February 2020.

What does this mean to you?
If your contract end date is beyond 28th February 2020 you should start to consider the different engagement options available to you now, so that you can make an informed decision on how you wish to continue your assignment with Vodafone beyond this date"



I would imagine a lot of the vendors ( Ericsson / NSN / Fujitsu etc ) to the major fixed line & mobile Telco's will now also follow suit...........

Everyone will follow suit, or have a massive target on their head for HMRC to aim at.

Limited Company IT contracting is dead and buried. You are either now PAYE permies or PAYE temp permies without any benefits or protections.

HTH BIDI