Reply to: Are parts of HMRC institutionally corrupt?

[PhiltheGreek]

One is reminded on Hanlon's Razor

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity

[BrilloPad]

Are councils institutionally corrupt or incompetent?

My recent experience:

6 weeks of missed recycling bin collections and they lost my garden waste collection payment even though I have a payment receipt. 6 weeks of having to phone/email council to complain but no action, just hot air.

Then. Park car in council car park. Buy ticket, place ticket on dashboard get back to find a £50 PCN because ticket had flipped over. I appeal but appeal rejected even though I can prove I paid for ticket via debit card.

I get the feeling, as far as councils are concerned, we are no more than cash cows.

Heart attack fear stops Penmaenmawr council live-streaming - BBC News

To be fair, Welsh councils are usually worse than English ones.....

[Big Blue Plymouth]

Are councils institutionally corrupt or incompetent?

My recent experience:

6 weeks of missed recycling bin collections and they lost my garden waste collection payment even though I have a payment receipt. 6 weeks of having to phone/email council to complain but no action, just hot air.

Then. Park car in council car park. Buy ticket, place ticket on dashboard get back to find a £50 PCN because ticket had flipped over. I appeal but appeal rejected even though I can prove I paid for ticket via debit card.

I get the feeling, as far as councils are concerned, we are no more than cash cows.

[Zigenare]

You know what they say about people who "protest too much".

He's probably secretly squirreling away loads of cryptocurrency too.

The filthy speculum!

[DealorNoDeal]

You really do have a hang up over this, don't you?

Who appointed you as "Tax Avoider Finder General"?

You know what they say about people who "protest too much".

He's probably secretly squirreling away loads of cryptocurrency too.

[BrilloPad]

You really do have a hang up over this, don't you?

Who appointed you as "Tax Avoider Finder General"?

We need a squirrel abuser finder general.

[Zigenare]

Talking of dishonesty - I’d say those who bought up lawsuits on “human rights” grounds to attempt to get away with what should be classed as tax evasion was totatly dishonest.

Perhaps if lawyers of such failed cases (including infamous QCs giving “opinion’) were disbarred then it would make them think twice before taking money for obvious wrongdoing.

You really do have a hang up over this, don't you?

Who appointed you as "Tax Avoider Finder General"?

[AtW]

Talking of dishonesty - I’d say those who bought up lawsuits on “human rights” grounds to attempt to get away with what should be classed as tax evasion was totatly dishonest.

Perhaps if lawyers of such failed cases (including infamous QCs giving “opinion’) were disbarred then it would make them think twice before taking money for obvious wrongdoing.

[AtW]

does not need bribery if their behaviour is dishonest to try to obtain something they would not be entitled without that is corrupt.

If they thought they would get promotion or bonus because of dishonest conduct that would still be corruption.

Problem is that its difficult to work out if it is incompetence or corruption.

Dishonesty is more fraud like behaviour, which also absent in my view.

[TwoWolves]

Pretty much. When I had my four year IR35 investigation they were biased, incompetent and overstepped boundaries. That can certainly appear to make them look corrupt. For example; my original case officer was removed because of my complaints about her bias - she was not a very nice person. Then, when they finally sent me their determination letter giving reasons why I was caught, they listed 40 points, of which 20 were factual errors including multiple quotes from a contract that wasn't actually mine. That resulted in me making a formal complaint - at which point I was found outside. Four years and they were still sending me erroneous stuff just to grind me down. I became a very different person after that - my views on the way this country is run changed drastically.

Corrupt isn't the right term.

Ideologically driven would be closer. I've met plenty of civil servants who burn with resentment towards everyone who has achieved more than them in life and they see their roles as opportunities to push back. They will simply bend any rule they can in order to do that successfully.

The Public Sector is overwhelmingly left-wing and I think a majority would love to see capitalism overturned completely.

[ComplianceLady]

I would say institutionally corrupt is possibly too strong / not accurate enough. My experience (Civil Service, Local Govt & HMRC but many years ago) is that policy makers have become more 'savvy' about enforcement. It used to be quite easy to tie any HMG dept in knots and frustrate the process. They've made changes in approach to address this.

Policy drives behaviour in those organisations, there is an element of individual impact - you can get hold of someone who is empathetic or not but ultimately the decision making parameters are not determined by them.

I think austerity has given a broader license to activities as there's more public sympathy for the difficulty in bringing in public funds, less sympathy for any 'group' generally and less fear about public perception. Another factor in that is the approach to tax across Europe which is focussed on the difference between employment and self employment taxes.

I think HMRC have concluded that fair and balanced is too open to misuse so they justify a more aggressive approach as being the only way to raise the revenue needed.

[JohntheBike]

does not need bribery if their behaviour is dishonest to try to obtain something they would not be entitled without that is corrupt.

If they thought they would get promotion or bonus because of dishonest conduct that would still be corruption.

Problem is that its difficult to work out if it is incompetence or corruption.

a very good friend of mine had been a civil servant for many years and he maintained that many would receive some sort of gong just for long service. Also, those that were seen to do "the job" well, were those that generally received the gongs. He'd left the civil service before he received his gong.

[vetran]

One again: corrupt would have been if they asked for a bribe to close wrongly open investigation or take bribe to target somebody with wrong investigation.

HMRC is certainly NOT corrupt.

dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.

does not need bribery if their behaviour is dishonest to try to obtain something they would not be entitled without that is corrupt.

If they thought they would get promotion or bonus because of dishonest conduct that would still be corruption.

Problem is that its difficult to work out if it is incompetence or corruption.

[JohntheBike]

Pretty much. When I had my four year IR35 investigation they were biased, incompetent and overstepped boundaries. That can certainly appear to make them look corrupt. For example; my original case officer was removed because of my complaints about her bias - she was not a very nice person. Then, when they finally sent me their determination letter giving reasons why I was caught, they listed 40 points, of which 20 were factual errors including multiple quotes from a contract that wasn't actually mine. That resulted in me making a formal complaint - at which point I was found outside. Four years and they were still sending me erroneous stuff just to grind me down. I became a very different person after that - my views on the way this country is run changed drastically.

I became a very different person after that - my views on the way this country is run changed drastically.

I did many years ago, for not so dissimilar reasons, and a few not so similar to boot.

[AtW]

Where does IR35 enter the equation?

Covered by income/NIC tax rates.