Reply to: Fraud / scam victim advice required

[vwdan]

How did you transfer founds from your account to a pre-paid credit card? They don’t have a sort or account number, you normally need to log on to providers site (PayPal / everyone else) and top up

How did you do this ?


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Prepay Technology

PrePay Solutions | Alternative banking

Standard account number and sort code

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing that may get abused for stuff like this.

[GhostofTarbera]

Fraud / scam victim advice required

How did you transfer founds from your account to a pre-paid credit card? They don’t have a sort or account number, you normally need to log on to providers site (PayPal / everyone else) and top up

How did you do this ?


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[Zigenare]

Both the email from hacker and builder's Whatapp message told me he was in Portugal, the hacker said until Friday, but the Whatsapp said until Sat (or the other way around, didn't notice the difference until I re read them again after what happened...
Yes was abroad, and was using my iphone to send WhatsAppl and emails.


He said he never checked his emails abroad, he didn't use any computer, so the only solution someone hacked his email remotely, or someone hacked his wifi or something while he was away.

Or you could be talking bollocks.

Zig - In "Just saying, like" mode

[SandyD]

If the builder didn't see the email you sent asking how to pay the invoice then his end must have been hacked for them to delete it before he saw it. This is backed up by the fact (from the information you've provided) the only genuine reference to him being in Portugal you received was via Whatsapp and not by email, so if your email was hacked/intercepted that information wouldn't have been known to the perp.

Unless you used the same mobile for whatsapp and sending the emails and that has been compromised somehow.

Both the email from hacker and builder's Whatapp message told me he was in Portugal, the hacker said until Friday, but the Whatsapp said until Sat (or the other way around, didn't notice the difference until I re read them again after what happened...
Yes was abroad, and was using my iphone to send WhatsAppl and emails.

So I'd be asking him how sure he can be that someone else hasn't intercepted your emails at his end (e.g. accessing his computer/laptop/phone while he was logged in) and directed payment elsewhere then deleted the emails. i.e. What device(s) has he been using while in Portugal to check emails.

He said he never checked his emails abroad, he didn't use any computer, so the only solution someone hacked his email remotely, or someone hacked his wifi or something while he was away.

[Hobosapien]

If the builder didn't see the email you sent asking how to pay the invoice then his end must have been hacked for them to delete it before he saw it. This is backed up by the fact (from the information you've provided) the only genuine reference to him being in Portugal you received was via Whatsapp and not by email, so if your email was hacked/intercepted that information wouldn't have been known to the perp.

Unless you used the same mobile for whatsapp and sending the emails and that has been compromised somehow.

So I'd be asking him how sure he can be that someone else hasn't intercepted your emails at his end (e.g. accessing his computer/laptop/phone while he was logged in) and directed payment elsewhere then deleted the emails. i.e. What device(s) has he been using while in Portugal to check emails.

[SandyD]

The payment went to a pre-paid card Prepay Technology bank??
The bank insist they can't do anything further, but I wrote a letter to escalate.
The builder denying he was hacked, denying he sent me any of the emails, and told me I still owe him.

I contacted citizen advice bureau , they said they can't help as this is out of their scope.
Went back to the met-police/action fraud report I made when I discovered the scam, they only have a pre-recorded message, the online chat said I will get an answer in due time, as there is a lot of cases and demand for their services .... so not getting to be able to speak to anyone !

Oh well, I told the builder am escalating the matter to the bank and action fraud and wont pay until investigation is done... but I agree as far as I am concerned he sent me those emails, and have copies of it, he is very defensive very worried and denying the hacking was on his side... I expect he was warned not to admit any fault.

[GhostofTarbera]

Confirmation of payee is going live within banking in the next few months - so the account name MUST match so will stop most of these scams

Did you send it to a UK based bank ?


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[Lance]

Did IP lookup, unfortunately all Yahoo servers, as this is a yahoo, there is no way of knowing which computer the email was sent from

Yahoo will have logs of the actual client computer.
Yahoo wil not provide them to you. Only to law enforcement, or possibly the builder who's account was maybe compromised (although i doubt it).

Still not going to help you as it proves nothing. Stop trying to help the builder prove he as ahcked and stick to "I've paid as requested. If you got hacked it's not my problem. Sorry."

[mudskipper]

To be clear - you were never sent the actual details of the correct account to pay the money to? How did the builder expect to get paid?

It does sound very dodgy.

[SandyD]

Did IP lookup, unfortunately all Yahoo servers, as this is a yahoo, there is no way of knowing which computer the email was sent from

[SandyD]

I am looking at the outlook email headers now, can some help me with it? not sure what to compare, I have old email from him last Oct, another one which he confirms he sent, and a third from supposed hacker...
IP addresses are similar, last two numbers different
Can anyone help in what to look for?

[Lance]

I which case I would suspect someone who knows your builder. It could even be someone living in Portugal.

someone hacking in a coffee shop the buiklder was using. Especially if the email service is unencrypted.

[Zigenare]

Thing is no one investigating now??? I reported it to fraud action/ met police and all I got from them is a reference number?
Who should I chase to investigate? Shall I call the police? I reported it online as on their site it advices to do it online

He sent you the account details, you paid to that account. Job jobbed.

You have the email evidence as and when he sues you or the Police get off their arse and do their job.

Explain why you think the onus is on you to fix this.

[SandyD]

Check previous invoice payments to see if same/similar account details (bank sort code and nationality if not a UK bank).

Is the sort code UK based or different nationality to the previous account(s) you paid the earlier invoices into? If UK based then the fraud squad should be able to trace the perp unless a sophisticated identity theft has gone on.

Stall paying anything else to the builder until the fraud investigation has proven the builder was not involved in the scam, either deliberately or accidentally. If accidentally, e.g. their computer was hacked or a relative/friend was involved unbeknown to the builder, you can haggle on a settlement cost similar to insurance splitting the fault of a claim.

If all else fails let Judge Rinder decide who is at fault and out of pocket. Let us know which episode you are in if it goes that far.

Thing is no one investigating now??? I reported it to fraud action/ met police and all I got from them is a reference number?
Who should I chase to investigate? Shall I call the police? I reported it online as on their site it advices to do it online

[Hobosapien]

Check previous invoice payments to see if same/similar account details (bank sort code and nationality if not a UK bank).

Is the sort code UK based or different nationality to the previous account(s) you paid the earlier invoices into? If UK based then the fraud squad should be able to trace the perp unless a sophisticated identity theft has gone on.

Stall paying anything else to the builder until the fraud investigation has proven the builder was not involved in the scam, either deliberately or accidentally. If accidentally, e.g. their computer was hacked or a relative/friend was involved unbeknown to the builder, you can haggle on a settlement cost similar to insurance splitting the fault of a claim.

If all else fails let Judge Rinder decide who is at fault and out of pocket. Let us know which episode you are in if it goes that far.