Reply to: ClientCo not allowing working from home

[psychocandy]

I would think of this as the last resort, but thanks for the suggestion

Mutuality of obligation and substitution are in my contract, but haven't exercised them, and I don't think I will even need to.

Again, I don't want to pull the "it's in the contract" argument unless I have to. On the other hand, we did not agree from the start that I could work from home at least once per week.

ClientCo also mentioned that despite most people working from home on Friday, our team doesn't, so it's good to have the team all together.

I think it's the case that they don't know how to work with contractors?

Or they're the ones with the cash so its up to them maybe?

[psychocandy]

I turned up to the client office today naked with a carrot up my arse and they told me not to turn up like this. How dare they control me - Im a contractor and its up to me what I stick up my arse

[psychocandy]

Must admit I can't believe the OP did that. i.e. Slapped it down to the client that he was working from home like it or not.

Unless theres been some discussion in advance, then surely, you can't "assume" you can do what you like. Theres IR35 and control etc and theres throwing your weight about.

And saying the permies do it so I should be able to? Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Sorry but stropping like a prima donna contractor and demanding you're rights is a quick fire way not to get an extension. I've seen it a few times with other contractors who come across as "awkward" - the client just thinks sod it.

Yes with IR35 there are "issues" to stick with but pick your battles....

Opposite for me at current client. Its local so I dont care about WFH but they've said now - we want all permies and contractors to work from home a few days a week. OK if thats what you want!

[AtW]

Only MarillionFan class heavyweights can pull this tulip and still keep the contract.

HTH

[DimPrawn]

trick is to do it gradually, its a seduction.


Start, yes of course I can do that out of hours stuff, but need to do it for home.

after a few months they start saying how are you enjoying it working at home? Its really convenient for us.

Problem with a lot of contractors is they seem to be on the autistic spectrum. They think shoving a piece of paper with some contract words on it gets them everything.

Little do they know, that come contract renewal time it's

People skills and you can work from home everyday and end up with contract after contract.

Oh, and **** HMR&C and their bulltulip "disguised employee" rules.

[vetran]

trick is to do it gradually, its a seduction.


Start, yes of course I can do that out of hours stuff, but need to do it for home.

after a few months they start saying how are you enjoying it working at home? Its really convenient for us.

[AtW]

I informed (not asked) my ClientCo that I will work from home the next day.
I was told by ClientCo "I don't see the reason why you should".

What's this in terms of IR35? I'm pretty sure that falls under control.
There is no mention in my contract the hours or place of work. Should I just use this information? Or should I tell the ClientCo reasons such as "helps me concentrate" and "reduce my commuting time"?

I am surprised they did not inform you (not asked) that you might as well stay home

[Skag]

Slightly worrying that you see the permies doing something and believe by default you can. Kinda messing with your own IR35 status.

You've got to see it the other way around though. Some bod you hardly know rocks up and just says I'm WFH out of the blue. The default answer to that should be 'are you fook' just on principle with no regards if it's possible or not.

This guy is your client. He pays your company a lot of money. You can't be controlled by him but that doesn't mean you can just roll over him. Like any supplier/customer situation you can be professional and courteous. Spend a couple of weeks on site and deliver hard, build up some respect and good rep. THEN you can discuss the situation the WFH opportunities to which he won't have a problem as you've proven yourself. Just rock up and stick it to him is second only to mailing him in the morning from home as the worst way to do it.

I like your approach, and you're, objectively speaking, correct. I think I got a bit too fanatic under the "thou shall not control!" part of contracting. I guess we never stop learning. Thanks for the answer.

[Skag]

Slightly worrying that you see the permies doing something and believe by default you can. Kinda messing with your own IR35 status.

true true

[northernladuk]

You guessed right, I did not. I assumed, and we all know assumption is the mother of all... Of course next time I will know better.
It's just such a relaxed company, and I know for fact at least once per week everyone is WFH. Given my responsibilities though, I don't think I need to be in the office 100%, as much of the work I do is in my desk...So it just leads me to believe that I've fallen on some controlling freak's lap.

Slightly worrying that you see the permies doing something and believe by default you can. Kinda messing with your own IR35 status.

You've got to see it the other way around though. Some bod you hardly know rocks up and just says I'm WFH out of the blue. The default answer to that should be 'are you fook' just on principle with no regards if it's possible or not.

This guy is your client. He pays your company a lot of money. You can't be controlled by him but that doesn't mean you can just roll over him. Like any supplier/customer situation you can be professional and courteous. Spend a couple of weeks on site and deliver hard, build up some respect and good rep. THEN you can discuss the situation the WFH opportunities to which he won't have a problem as you've proven yourself. Just rock up and stick it to him is second only to mailing him in the morning from home as the worst way to do it.

[Skag]

Do you like Gladiators?

Huh? Throwing some market research in the mix?

[Skag]

Did you actually discuss working from home at all or did you just decided you wanted to do it and dropped it on the client? Looking at that response I'm guessing you did.

It would have be courteous to discuss it before hand, and IMO, spent a good time on site getting a good reputation before starting to WFH.

If you'd discussed it first and understood your options I don't think it would be as much an issue. Nothing wrong with providing the client the professional courtesy to supply services that suit his needs, which may happen to be 100% on site. Just because WFH is not available it doesn't mean you are being controlled. Trying to force it on the client and getting reined in could be.

You guessed right, I did not. I assumed, and we all know assumption is the mother of all... Of course next time I will know better.
It's just such a relaxed company, and I know for fact at least once per week everyone is WFH. Given my responsibilities though, I don't think I need to be in the office 100%, as much of the work I do is in my desk...So it just leads me to believe that I've fallen on some controlling freak's lap.

[Skag]

RoS is Right Of Substitution. Just because there is a clause in there it doesn't mean it's acceptable. It has to be unfettered. The client does not have the decision to take them or not as long as they are qualified.

Did you get your contract checked before you started?

RoS is in my contract, and I did get it checked with QDos. It passed the IR35, and some extra optional suggestions were added.

[northernladuk]

If your job is bleeding radiators then it's not surprising they won't let you WFH.

Do you like Gladiators?

HTH

[northernladuk]

I informed (not asked) my ClientCo that I will work from home the next day.
I was told by ClientCo "I don't see the reason why you should".

What's this in terms of IR35? I'm pretty sure that falls under control.
There is no mention in my contract the hours or place of work. Should I just use this information? Or should I tell the ClientCo reasons such as "helps me concentrate" and "reduce my commuting time"?

Did you actually discuss working from home at all or did you just decided you wanted to do it and dropped it on the client? Looking at that response I'm guessing the latter.

It would have be courteous to discuss it before hand, and IMO, spent a good time on site getting a good reputation before starting to WFH.

If you'd discussed it first and understood your options I don't think it would be as much an issue. Nothing wrong with providing the client the professional courtesy to supply services that suit his needs, which may happen to be 100% on site. Just because WFH is not available it doesn't mean you are being controlled. Trying to force it on the client and getting reined in could be.