Reply to: Off payroll petition

[Gibbon]

Careful what you wish for!

By signing this you are saying that if inside IR35 then you should get full employment rights

As fair as this may sound (which I agree it does sound), companies will think that if we've got to pay a contractor £x00/day and give them employment rights then we might as well hire an FTC and pay a relatively measly salary and a few cheap benefits.......so contracting really will be dead.

In my field/level today it's £500+/day & no benefits or £35k salary & tiny benefits.....there's no comparison

I'd rather we didn't demand employment rights and just pushed for a higher day rate if they want us to accept being inside IR35

No, not being rude but you don't understand how the cost accounting is done in most big companies. You would be right in thinking holiday and sick pay don't make up the difference. What you are missing is the overheads piled on a permie cost. The cost for a permie on a project includes an aggregate of all the costs that can't be booked to contract. Admin, HR, Security, Catering, facilities management etc. As a contractor none of these overheads are applied to your cost as you are temporary. I once had a permie having a go at my PM saying "why are getting the likes of them in when they cost so much? " He showed him how much I cost the project against his cost, quite funny. There is also the fact that when work drys up a contractor is released with no cost. Redundancy costs not just the payout but the hassle and admin with all the 'fairness' in who's chosen.

[AtW]

Seems a bit shortsighted to me and will have unintended consequences.

It's the Govt.

They don't give a fook.

[guitarxx]

shortsighted govt

No they won't. They will be taking more of your income in tax. If you think anyone in the wider world gives a sh!t about that, best of luck to you, but take it from me, they don't, and neither does the government...

Seems a bit shortsighted to me and will have unintended consequences.

assume i earn £400 per day using a ltd company and i pay the min wage and take dividends.

I would also pay corporation tax of approx 10k pa and collect VAT for the govt, approx 20K pa, so the govt gets 30K pa from me in taxes.

If they bring in ir35 for the private sector this will drive lots of contractors to close their business and get a permy role, i would probably be lucky to get more than
£40k permy role, so the the PAYE/NI i would pay on this would be approx 9K.

The govt would lose 21K from me, how is this a good strategy

[DimPrawn]

And to "vote" you enter your email address, which HMR&C will use to lookup and cross check against your identity, so for gods sake use an anonymous throw away random email address...

[DimPrawn]

No, it doesn't

HTH

WHS, your "vote" isn't worth the electrons it is printed on.

[cosmic]

Careful what you wish for!

By signing this you are saying that if inside IR35 then you should get full employment rights

As fair as this may sound (which I agree it does sound), companies will think that if we've got to pay a contractor £x00/day and give them employment rights then we might as well hire an FTC and pay a relatively measly salary and a few cheap benefits.......so contracting really will be dead.

In my field/level today it's £500+/day & no benefits or £35k salary & tiny benefits.....there's no comparison

I'd rather we didn't demand employment rights and just pushed for a higher day rate if they want us to accept being inside IR35

Gotta say that is a good point. But on the flip side in the public sector has this happened? So far it's not been the case as contractors are penny a pound at the moment. What needs to happen is proper ir35 checks where companies would be held liable if they put as ir35 when in fact it's not. Rules should be applied both ways so it's done properly and fairly to all parties involved. So far it's one sided because it makes more money for HMRC and less work for them.

[PTP]

Careful what you wish for!

By signing this you are saying that if inside IR35 then you should get full employment rights

As fair as this may sound (which I agree it does sound), companies will think that if we've got to pay a contractor £x00/day and give them employment rights then we might as well hire an FTC and pay a relatively measly salary and a few cheap benefits.......so contracting really will be dead.

In my field/level today it's £500+/day & no benefits or £35k salary & tiny benefits.....there's no comparison

I'd rather we didn't demand employment rights and just pushed for a higher day rate if they want us to accept being inside IR35

[AtW]

No they won't. They will be taking more of your income in tax. If you think anyone in the wider world gives a sh!t about that, best of luck to you, but take it from me, they don't, and neither does the government...

Mordy is like a broken clock - twice in a while says correct things...

[Mordac]

I think it is a good idea. Means the government will really be shooting itself in the foot if it goes ahead with this.

No they won't. They will be taking more of your income in tax. If you think anyone in the wider world gives a sh!t about that, best of luck to you, but take it from me, they don't, and neither does the government...

[Mordac]

Signed but.... How does any policy that is 'designed to prevent unscrupulous firms forcing vulnerable workers into precarious work.' apply to us?

The mother of all pointless questions.

[jds 1981]

I think it is a good idea. Means the government will really be shooting itself in the foot if it goes ahead with this.

[AtW]

Vote with your feet

FTFY

[vetran]

Signed but.... How does any policy that is 'designed to prevent unscrupulous firms forcing vulnerable workers into precarious work.' apply to us?

stopping big business throwing independents under the bus has to help!

If they do it for the self employed some clever lawyer can remind them that they are effectively saying "PSCs" are self employed cough up.

[jamesbrown]

No, it doesn't

HTH

Vote early, vote often.

[northernladuk]

Signed but.... How does any policy that is 'designed to prevent unscrupulous firms forcing vulnerable workers into precarious work.' apply to us?