Reply to: Reply from MP about IR35 Reforms

[Whorty]

I have not heard any substantive arguments (other than small businesses being unnecessarily burdened which I concede). So am not going to change my mind.

I usually ignore these kind of arguments, even if some might consider them 'robust' argument.

1. Unnecessary personal remark: You are stupid, your mom should have aborted you coz she is a whore.
2. Vague pointing towards documents: Go read xyz and comeback to argue with me.
3. Argument from authority: I know this sh*t kiddo , I have been doing it longer than you have been on this earth.. bla bla.

It does not matter whether these are true statements or not, just that they have no bearing on what we are discussing, even if I am wrong, it still does not change anything.

Conversely it does not matter who makes the substantial point, or there is spelling mistake or it was put clumsily, I am happy to concede if I can understand it, and it makes logical sense to me.

This reminds me to read up on logical fallacies again, I sometimes resort to it without knowing.

FFS

[fatboyslim]

QED...

[mudskipper]

The problem here is the Brandolini principle.

[malvolio]

I have not heard any substantive arguments (other than small businesses being unnecessarily burdened which I concede). So am not going to change my mind.

I usually ignore these kind of arguments, even if some might consider them 'robust' argument.

1. Unnecessary personal remark: You are stupid, your mom should have aborted you coz she is a whore.
2. Vague pointing towards documents: Go read xyz and comeback to argue with me.
3. Argument from authority: I know this sh*t kiddo , I have been doing it longer than you have been on this earth.. bla bla.

It does not matter whether these are true statements or not, just that they have no bearing on what we are discussing, even if I am wrong, it still does not change anything.

Conversely it does not matter who makes the substantial point, or there is spelling mistake or it was put clumsily, I am happy to concede if I can understand it, and it makes logical sense to me.

This reminds me to read up on logical fallacies again, I sometimes resort to it without knowing.

QED...

[fatboyslim]

No you clearly don't as 2 other posters have pointed out.

I have not heard any substantive arguments (other than small businesses being unnecessarily burdened which I concede). So am not going to change my mind.

I usually ignore these kind of arguments, even if some might consider them 'robust' argument.

1. Unnecessary personal remark: You are stupid, your mom should have aborted you coz she is a whore.
2. Vague pointing towards documents: Go read xyz and comeback to argue with me.
3. Argument from authority: I know this sh*t kiddo , I have been doing it longer than you have been on this earth.. bla bla.

It does not matter whether these are true statements or not, just that they have no bearing on what we are discussing, even if I am wrong, it still does not change anything.

Conversely it does not matter who makes the substantial point, or there is spelling mistake or it was put clumsily, I am happy to concede if I can understand it, and it makes logical sense to me.

This reminds me to read up on logical fallacies again, I sometimes resort to it without knowing.

[SueEllen]

Nah, I think I broadly understand where HMRC is coming from and why contractors are worried. The forum posts merely reflect one side of the story, its like asking turkey's view of chrismas, should be taken onboard but that does not get to decide everything.

No you clearly don't as 2 other posters have pointed out.

[fatboyslim]

Your entire post plus your previous posts show you don't have a clue about IR35. This is why Mal gave up with you and I don't blame him. BTW there are plenty of forum posts that can inform you about IR35, and I suggest you read some of them.

Nah, I think I broadly understand where HMRC is coming from and why contractors are worried. The forum posts merely reflect one side of the story, its like asking turkey's view of chrismas, should be taken onboard but that does not get to decide everything.

[fatboyslim]

Serious question here .... are you just an HMRC stooge? The clues are you don't understand IR35, you don't understand how contractors work, you don't understand how we differ from permie workers and, not to be too personal, but you're not the sharpest pencil in the Mr Men case!

sushhh

[Whorty]

It better if client does it. Currently only public sector does it and it should be extended to private sector clients so that we all follow same rule.
The clients usually have more resource to fight with HMRC, in any case, I will be spared the headache... niceee

Serious question here .... are you just an HMRC stooge? The clues are you don't understand IR35, you don't understand how contractors work, you don't understand how we differ from permie workers and, not to be too personal, but you're not the sharpest pencil in the Mr Men case!

[SueEllen]

the account department does not need to know the details of what you are doing, as long as they ensure the contract is outside IR35. HMRC provides service to check the compliance if you send your contract.
All govt rules can be broken but it does not mean govt should not try for better compliance. Compliance is difficult to achieve if you are targeting millions of one man limited companies, its not worth the effort and can drain a lot of resource.
With clients that are small businesses, may be govt can have a threshold criteria(total turnover, number/percentage of contractors)to give exempt to such businesses.

we have other legislation related to working rights that puts onus on clients that receives the service to prove the employee or contractor has right to work in the uk. Houseowners now have obligation to check that you tenant has eligibility to live in Uk, agreed its much more complex criteria than merely checking passport/visa but its more practical than HMRC doing everything.

Your entire post plus your previous posts show you don't have a clue about IR35. This is why Mal gave up with you and I don't blame him. BTW there are plenty of forum posts that can inform you about IR35, and I suggest you read some of them.

[malvolio]

QED...

[fatboyslim]

Ok i give in . Against stupidity the gods themselves strive in vain.

[fatboyslim]

Why? How would the accounts department in one of my huge multi-national client be aware of what department X, who require my services , know what I'm doing?



You are aware the government can put in rules and both public and private sectors can do things to circumvent them, making said rules useless?



Private sector clients include small businesses to huge multi-nationals. Explain how a small business of 3 people who hire a contractor, which is precisely one of my friends' cases, have "more resource"?

the account department does not need to know the details of what you are doing, as long as they ensure the contract is outside IR35. HMRC provides service to check the compliance if you send your contract.
All govt rules can be broken but it does not mean govt should not try for better compliance. Compliance is difficult to achieve if you are targeting millions of one man limited companies, its not worth the effort and can drain a lot of resource.
With clients that are small businesses, may be govt can have a threshold criteria(total turnover, number/percentage of contractors)to give exempt to such businesses.

we have other legislation related to working rights that puts onus on clients that receives the service to prove the employee or contractor has right to work in the uk. Houseowners now have obligation to check that you tenant has eligibility to live in Uk, agreed its much more complex criteria than merely checking passport/visa but its more practical than HMRC doing everything.

[SueEllen]

It better if client does it.

Why? How would the accounts department in one of my huge multi-national client be aware of what department X, who require my services , know what I'm doing?

Currently only public sector does it and it should be extended to private sector clients so that we all follow same rule.

You are aware the government can put in rules and both public and private sectors can do things to circumvent them, making said rules useless?

The clients usually have more resource to fight with HMRC, in any case, I will be spared the headache... niceee

Private sector clients include small businesses to huge multi-nationals. Explain how a small business of 3 people who hire a contractor, which is precisely one of my friends' cases, have "more resource"?

[malvolio]

It better if client does it. Currently only public sector does it and it should be extended to private sector clients so that we all follow same rule.
The clients usually have more resource to fight with HMRC, in any case, I will be spared the headache... niceee

Ok i give in . Against stupidity the gods themselves strive in vain.