Originally posted by psychocandy
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Reply to: Terrible client
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Previously on "Terrible client"
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Always remember "Not my circus not my monkeys"
Clients issue with people leaving, project being late, not enough resources etc is not your problem.
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Originally posted by vetran View Post... Take copies of the abusive & money related emails / forward to a reputable 3rd party if you can legally. ...
If you can get signed letters of support from anyone else at client (still there or recently moved on) all the better. You need to be able to show that you were in the right and client was in the wrong, and that any invoices are backed up with signed timesheets and any other proof you did the actual work (emails, project plan updates, etc).
Hopefully the client is just being a dick due to the stress of being behind schedule and will come to their senses, but be prepared for them just being dicks and arseholes and *****, and look forward to the last time you leave their offices and never have to go back. It's a great feeling.
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its a week left, play the game, turn up at 9am, go home at 5pm for 5 days. It is Xmas and someone in your family must need assistance so you can't work longer.
If they want more then they need to pay your outstanding invoices first. If you do negotiate then make it a short time < 3 months and ream them, payment up front.
Do not commit to any deadlines apologise but their loss of the other resources has meant you have had to learn their part of the project as well before you can carry on, you have to be able to sell that.
Take copies of the abusive & money related emails / forward to a reputable 3rd party if you can legally.
Make sure they acknowledge the invoices even if they try to refute them. Make sure they get the last one on your last day. If you can make sure the outstanding money is under the small claims limit, I'm told its just easier to chase.
You owe them absolutely nothing when they start that tulip. Get advice and make sure you are clean.
But get the hell out, they will do your head in, get your money (if you can) and get a new contract. When you have got away then sue the barstewards.
How small is the customer base are this customer well known can they make life difficult for you? Would their competitors believe them if they bad mouthed you? If so check your NDA is both ways & remind them if need be.Last edited by vetran; 17 December 2017, 16:45.
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If via an agency pressure them to pay the outstanding invoice(s) based on payment terms in your contract. One of the few benefits of agences is they tend to pay out before they get paid by the client.
If on a day rate maybe negotiate with client that you'll put more hours in than whatever is in your contract as a professional working day, to get as much done as possible in the final week, providing you can invoice for the additional time somehow (e.g. additional days beyond the 7 physically possible in a week).
If on a hourly rate then kerching, work as many hours as you can manage. My best was 90 hours in one week, largest invoice ever. No idea how doctors and nurses average that (if they still do) from time to time as I was knackered at the end of it but had a few weeks rest before getting another contract.
You know the real reason why the permies left, client is run by arsehole(s). At least with only one week left you just need to worry about getting paid and can then blacklist the client as one never to even consider going back to, unless they have a total management change.
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Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostHi,
So I’ve been working as my own limited company with a small company involved in agricultural analysis on a number of contracts for the past couple of years. Things have mostly been fine and the work is fairly interesting.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostThe trouble is now that the permie developers have left (which I’m somehow being blamed for) I’m the only person left on a project that’s supposed to be finished by the end of the year. Incidentally, despite the apparent importance of the project, both permies were given gardening leave.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostI’m being pressured by the client to work late and make written commitments that I’ll complete a list of tasks which there simply isn’t enough time (of course I refuse).
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostUnfortunately also, due to getting my main home computer fixed and lack of apparent urgency I only submitted my invoices for the previous two months at the start of December.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostThe client is being intolerable, accusing me of not working, demanding that I show evidence of doing all work (each line timestamped, apparently) and claiming that I would be be in breach of contract unless I come in at 9am (I know, IR35 etc which I’ve told the client).
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostI only have one week to go
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View Postbut the client continues to make unreasonable demands, frequent verbal abuse regarding my ability and professionalism and on one occasion a remark that I would not be paid unless the project is finished. (Which is almost anticipatory breach of contract)
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostMy contract actually states that I will assist in the development of the project and that’s it. My feeling is that the client wants to push me into a breach of contract, claiming withdrawal of service if I refuse to work in these conditions.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostAlso then rather than paying for legal action he’ll probably just withhold payment.Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostI could actually put in a reasonable effort if I wasn’t having to deal with this continual harassment and demands for proof of working, daily reports, impromptu demos without warning, working late, etc.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostI am pushing back: “I’m not obliged to do that” “you do not have direct control over my work” etc, but it hasn’t helped.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostThe advice I got from an IPSE legal advisor was just to tough it out to the end basically. What I’m not keen on though is being harassed so much I can’t effectively work or being provoked into some breach and losing out anyway.
Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostI’m wondering how much this level of obstruction might relieve me of my obligations.
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Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostHi,
So I’ve been working as my own limited company with a small company involved in agricultural analysis on a number of contracts for the past couple of years. Things have mostly been fine and the work is fairly interesting.
The trouble is now that the permie developers have left (which I’m somehow being blamed for) I’m the only person left on a project that’s supposed to be finished by the end of the year. Incidentally, despite the apparent importance of the project, both permies were given gardening leave.
I’m being pressured by the client to work late and make written commitments that I’ll complete a list of tasks which there simply isn’t enough time (of course I refuse). Unfortunately also, due to getting my main home computer fixed and lack of apparent urgency I only submitted my invoices for the previous two months at the start of December.
The client is being intolerable, accusing me of not working, demanding that I show evidence of doing all work (each line timestamped, apparently) and claiming that I would be be in breach of contract unless I come in at 9am (I know, IR35 etc which I’ve told the client).
I only have one week to go but the client continues to make unreasonable demands, frequent verbal abuse regarding my ability and professionalism and on one occasion a remark that I would not be paid unless the project is finished. (Which is almost anticipatory breach of contract)
My contract actually states that I will assist in the development of the project and that’s it. My feeling is that the client wants to push me into a breach of contract, claiming withdrawal of service if I refuse to work in these conditions.
Also then rather than paying for legal action he’ll probably just withhold payment.
I could actually put in a reasonable effort if I wasn’t having to deal with this continual harassment and demands for proof of working, daily reports, impromptu demos without warning, working late, etc.
I am pushing back: “I’m not obliged to do that” “you do not have direct control over my work” etc, but it hasn’t helped.
The advice I got from an IPSE legal advisor was just to tough it out to the end basically. What I’m not keen on though is being harassed so much I can’t effectively work or being provoked into some breach and losing out anyway.
I’m wondering how much this level of obstruction might relieve me of my obligations.
Any advice? Anything, legal or strategic would be appreciated.
Jimmy
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Are you direct or through an agency? It sounds like you are direct?
Obviously the invoice thing was a mistake. Did you get any timesheets signed? What are the payment terms?
Has there been any discussion of extension? If they want an extension(and it sounds like they are desperate) insist on better working conditions, in writing. And get your back invoices paid.
More likely you are going to have to go to court to get paid.
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Originally posted by Jimmy3 View PostI only have one week to go but the client continues to make unreasonable demands, frequent verbal abuse regarding my ability and professionalism and on one occasion a remark that I would not be paid unless the project is finished.
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Put up with it don't argue, do as they say, rather than arguing back,say very little and once you've finished invoice them, and if they don't pay hand over to a debt collection agency. The advice of not walking out is good advice, you don't want to be the one who breached the contract.
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You only have 1 week to go. Put up and just see it through, surely ?
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Terrible client
Hi,
So I’ve been working as my own limited company with a small company involved in agricultural analysis on a number of contracts for the past couple of years. Things have mostly been fine and the work is fairly interesting.
The trouble is now that the permie developers have left (which I’m somehow being blamed for) I’m the only person left on a project that’s supposed to be finished by the end of the year. Incidentally, despite the apparent importance of the project, both permies were given gardening leave.
I’m being pressured by the client to work late and make written commitments that I’ll complete a list of tasks which there simply isn’t enough time (of course I refuse). Unfortunately also, due to getting my main home computer fixed and lack of apparent urgency I only submitted my invoices for the previous two months at the start of December.
The client is being intolerable, accusing me of not working, demanding that I show evidence of doing all work (each line timestamped, apparently) and claiming that I would be be in breach of contract unless I come in at 9am (I know, IR35 etc which I’ve told the client).
I only have one week to go but the client continues to make unreasonable demands, frequent verbal abuse regarding my ability and professionalism and on one occasion a remark that I would not be paid unless the project is finished. (Which is almost anticipatory breach of contract)
My contract actually states that I will assist in the development of the project and that’s it. My feeling is that the client wants to push me into a breach of contract, claiming withdrawal of service if I refuse to work in these conditions.
Also then rather than paying for legal action he’ll probably just withhold payment.
I could actually put in a reasonable effort if I wasn’t having to deal with this continual harassment and demands for proof of working, daily reports, impromptu demos without warning, working late, etc.
I am pushing back: “I’m not obliged to do that” “you do not have direct control over my work” etc, but it hasn’t helped.
The advice I got from an IPSE legal advisor was just to tough it out to the end basically. What I’m not keen on though is being harassed so much I can’t effectively work or being provoked into some breach and losing out anyway.
I’m wondering how much this level of obstruction might relieve me of my obligations.
Any advice? Anything, legal or strategic would be appreciated.
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