Reply to: Labour prepare to destroy the economy

[shaunbhoy]

someone who incorrectly thinks

And there we have sas in a nutshell.

[BlasterBates]

Labour's position does look pretty good, their tantalising offer for a maybe referendum will more or less ensure the complete destruction of the Tories if Brexit goes pear shaped

Labour not ruling out a second referendum

[sasguru]

what's the better one(s)?

There isn't one on this subject. Because both the ideas of race and IQ have severe issues.
If, as seems to be the case, there is more variation within a race than between races then comparing them is deeply flawed.
IQ is flawed too.
For example, unlike Westerners, Chinese people (and other Asians) seem to believe the brain is more plastic and flexible than Westerners do.
So if a kid is poor at maths, in the West he would be steered on to something else, in the East they would get more tuition in the belief that hard work can improve the brain's capabilities.

Until these flawed concepts of both race and IQ are clarified comparing "races" on the basis of "IQ" is silly.

The antithesis to the "Bell Curve" is Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man". On amazon, the racists have come out in force to slag it off just as they give 5 stars to the "the Bell Curve".
On a scientific level, if you read with an open mind, Gould's is much the better book.

FWIW I believe in the cyclical interpretation of history - top dogs today are not tomorrow, so making judgements on the basis of the current situation is flawed.

[SueEllen]

what's the better one(s)?

Problem is black Americans and white Americans are closely related thanks to slavery so any research using those groups blaming it on genes is immediately suspect.

There are studies that look at a nations IQ. They have found that the population in some African countries e.g. Sierra Leone generally have a higher IQ then some European nations.

[Lance]

Best? Not at all.
I've read the book. Problem is that his statistical methods are so poor as to throw considerable doubt on his conclusions.

what's the better one(s)?

[sasguru]

Here's a book. In one chapter is suggests that black-american people are less intelligent than white-american people, who are less intelligent than chinese-american people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

It's quite controversial (odd that), and the author is often no-platformed. It's probably the best, and last, study of intelligence and genetics. When the snowflakes f*** off back to their safe spaces then perhaps we can have more research into a fascinating subject.

Best? Not at all.
I've read the book. Problem is that his statistical methods are so poor as to throw considerable doubt on his conclusions.

[sasguru]

you sound like a eugenecist

I do believe people who can't spell should be culled.

[Lance]

Was it still the case in Victorian times?
Or has the welfare state allowed the lower socioeconomic classes to catch up with their richer peers in terms of family size?
If the latter, and if IQ is heritable, then proportionally you'd dilute the intelligence of the country as a whole.

While I acknowledge the problems with IQ as a concept there is indeed evidence that the average IQ is declining in the West:
https://www.newscientist.com/article...man-intellect/

Here's a book. In one chapter is suggests that black-american people are less intelligent than white-american people, who are less intelligent than chinese-american people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

It's quite controversial (odd that), and the author is often no-platformed. It's probably the best, and last, study of intelligence and genetics. When the snowflakes f*** off back to their safe spaces then perhaps we can have more research into a fascinating subject.

[sasguru]

According to this report it makes no difference - see page 6:

Socio-demographic comparison... - populationmatters.org

Thanks.

Was it still the case in Victorian times?
Or has the welfare state allowed the lower socioeconomic classes to catch up with their richer peers in terms of family size?
If the latter, and if IQ is heritable, then proportionally you'd dilute the intelligence of the country as a whole.

While I acknowledge the problems with IQ as a concept there is indeed evidence that the average IQ is declining in the West:
https://www.newscientist.com/article...man-intellect/

This is quite interesting:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...celandic-study

[Lance]

you sound like a eugenecist

It's a bit of a leap to suggest that someone who incorrectly thinks that poor people breed faster is a eugenecist.

For starters, a eugenecist would have studied the evidence and found out that it's not true. And would then conclude that being lazy and feckless is not heritable by genes.
Whether fecklessness and laziness are culturlayy heritable is a different question and not in the specialisation of eugenics. You need an anthropologist for that.

/pedant

[tiggat]

And in other news a Brexiter starts a thread about Labour preparing to destroy the economy.

Many comments on this thread about why the economy will decline, but the main reason is that there are too many complete imbeciles in the British population.
That's what the welfare state has done, encouraged the stupid and feckless to breed.

you sound like a eugenecist

[northernladyuk]

According to this report it makes no difference - see page 6:

Socio-demographic comparison... - populationmatters.org

Thanks.

[The_Equalizer]

Are there any stats to suggest this has had an effect on family sizes in different socio-economic groups? I would expect that the provision of free birth control through the welfare state is more likely to have had the opposite effect overall.

More likely that declining educational standards have left a large proportion of the population without the cognitive skills to see through the super-wealthy class's 20+ year Eurosceptic newspaper campaign. As a result, these poorly educated types have voted against their own interests.

According to this report it makes no difference - see page 6:

Socio-demographic comparison... - populationmatters.org

[The_Equalizer]

The thing I always find with Corbyn, is he only ever appeals to the people he knows that will already vote for him, or maybe that is his trick, keeping his core in tact while the rest destroy themselves with in fighting.

Have you seen the cover of The Spectator?

[northernladyuk]

He learned that from Trump.
The far(ish, Trump in this case) right and far(ish, in this case, Corbyn) left have always used the same tactics.
The result historically has always been the same, oppression and tyranny, the minority dominating the majority.
Abandoning the centre is a prescription for chaos - unfortunately this seems to be the path the UK and US have embarked on.

The centre is something of a moving feast. Standing for restoration of some trade union rights, nationalisation of railway and social housing building puts him somewhat on a par with Macmillan on domestic policy.