Reply to: Why the EU love in?

[BrilloPad]

Eurozone faces doom 'no matter what' | Daily Mail Online

[motoukenin]

Long time lurker first time poster, genuine question why are so many posters on here seemingly in love with the EU? Why do you love it so much and what do you think it is?

I've seen all the same tired arguments, leavers are sh it kicking retards that have difficulty making complicated decisions, but does sovereignty actually mean anything to you guys? Without that you don't have a country and all the rest really doesn't matter.

Most remoaners are not listening to anyone on here that would be stupid, so when it comes to listening to arguments for and against then I would listen to people like the IOD, CBI , FSB etc. etc. these people run multi billion pound businesses and have been doing so for a long time, they are telling us that it is having a negative effect (needs FT sub) https://www.ft.com/content/b1a38be4-...63daf?mhq5j=e3 and I can see that from my own experience as well far fewer calls from agents this year then any other I can ever remember.

I also listen to scientists and engineers , telling us that leaving EU is a big mistake https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/...500328.article.

On the benefits of leaving, all we are hearing is we will be able to set our own laws (you will notice that any economic benefits the leavers previously told you have not been mentioned any more), but what law are you so concerned about on a day to day basis you would give up not being able to contract in the EU easily, risk trade and jobs (59 banks have already decided to move staff out) and according to the government will be paying more taxes due to loosing revenue from Brexit ?

Not sure there is any law I am so upset about that I would trade that for getting contract work, many in the UK are not getting contracts right now due to the uncertainty and lack of project work because businesses are not investing in the UK, you still sure you are so upset by EU laws or incompetence or is a roof over your head and supporting yourself or your family more important?

As for sovereignty its not something that younger people like myself are interested in anymore, OK so grandad fought for his country and because of that now expects that everyone in his country to be British, but the world has moved on since then, looking around my office (In Germany) there are a few Brits a few Americans some Canadians , Indians, Hungarians, Australians, Russians? could be Belarus or Ukrainian,one Filipino and the rest French German Swiss and central EU, so very typical of any project I have been on in UK as well in fact in the UK probably more so.

[Mordac]

The ECB commitee which is responsible for setting interest rates has representatives from all the countries in the Eurozone, therefore it is complete nonsense to suggest the interest rates were set to suit Germany.

Any rate which screws Germany effectively screws the whole of Europe. So rates are naturally going to be set at the rate which benefits (or causes the least damage to) the most powerful. I think we're mostly agreed that Greece should never have been allowed near the Eurozone, but the political elite decided it should happen, and some creative accounting was done to suit the politics. It's the wrong way round, and that won't work forever.

[Mordac]

TBH I don't give a tulip about the SOuthern European economies. The only reason Brexiters bang on about them is to show how "evil" Germany is.

That's not really in the spirit of the "European family", now is it?

And it has nothing to do with Germany being "evil" merely that there is now a direction of travel, whereby Germany calls the shots, and everyone else (including the EU itself in most cases) dances to their tune. True, it is simply a matter of Germany having most of the money, but the way EU accessions are organised seems on the face of it to be very much to their advantage. I'd need to find the actual piece I saw about 4 or 5 years ago which suggested 70% of EU infrastructure investment into 'some Eastern European member states' ended up on the balance sheets of German companies. Unfortunately the EU isn't nearly transparent enough to establish whether this is simply coincidental, or there's a bit more to it.

[sasguru]

Even after a whole year, there is nothing to say what Brexit will look like, or how many years it will take.

It's not going to be what the yes voters thought they were going to get.

It is increasingly likely that Brexit will never happen. The tide has turned already. Admittedly it's not the time to start putting money on anything down at William Hill but the anti-leave tendency has been getting stronger. At some point the remaining yes voters will realise they simply have no chance of avoiding paying a lot of money and at the same time suffering significant trading penalties. There will be an outcry at how the scummy Europeans have double-crossed us, which proved the leavers were right all along, but then those self same people will give in to minimise the pain. They'll grumpily realise whilst they're entitled to nirvana, it ain't coming via this route.

Agreed.
Only a small ideological minority of the population want an economically painful hard Brexit.
So whatever you call it, "Soft Brexit", "EEA" etc. all you're getting is a fudge. A fudge that is worse than what we have now.

In the meantime it's just a case of wait-and-see. Presumably the Government will get its act together at some stage, although why Boris Johnson was ever invited to participate in a responsible role, and remains so, mystifies me.

Bozo Johnson was put into that role by May because he's much less dangerous there, being a visible plonker, than plotting on the sidelines.

[Cirrus]

Even after a whole year, there is nothing to say what Brexit will look like, or how many years it will take.

It's not going to be what the yes voters thought they were going to get.

It is increasingly likely that Brexit will never happen. The tide has turned already. Admittedly it's not the time to start putting money on anything down at William Hill but the anti-leave tendency has been getting stronger. At some point the remaining yes voters will realise they simply have no chance of avoiding paying a lot of money and at the same time suffering significant trading penalties. There will be an outcry at how the scummy Europeans have double-crossed us, which proved the leavers were right all along, but then those self same people will give in to minimise the pain. They'll grumpily realise whilst they're entitled to nirvana, it ain't coming via this route.

In the meantime it's just a case of wait-and-see. Presumably the Government will get its act together at some stage, although why Boris Johnson was ever invited to participate in a responsible role, and remains so, mystifies me.

[excon]

Cut through 12 pages of this. Answer is self interest.

I think we have a winner.

[excon]

"The reality" is something that you have little grasp of. It's an excuse for you to put in theories/lies/hyperbole/emotive words that are vague enough that if you were challenged you would claim they didn't mean what most people would interpret them to mean.

Has anyone explained to the haters of all things European that one of the terrible things the UK will no longer be part of when we leave the EU is Open Skies?

From your first reply:

"It's not about "loving" the EU, it's about not hating everyone who isn't British."

Your hardly innocent in this regard yourself. I would propose that these are "emotive words" not facts, and ones I've heard a lot from remainers that anyone who voted leave was some xenophobic little Englander.

[The_Equalizer]

ANd it was the simpleton Brexiteers that didn't understand that the UK already had control over their own borders as it had stayed outside of the Schengen treaty

Surely you mean our borders?

[Eirikur]

I'll just put the thread back on message before we waste more of our "breath", because this isn't about ECB financial policy is it.

ANd it was the simpleton Brexiteers that didn't understand that the UK already had control over their own borders as it had stayed outside of the Schengen treaty

[tiggat]

I'll just put the thread back on message before we waste more of our "breath", because this isn't about ECB financial policy is it.

Are you stereotyping brexiters as racists?

[The_Equalizer]

Cut through 12 pages of this. Answer is self interest.

[BlasterBates]

I'll just put the thread back on message before we waste more of our "breath", because this isn't about ECB financial policy is it.

[sasguru]

This is just more breathless hyperbole from remain, no one is saying Germany is evil or it was their intention to become the dominant power in the EU. It is just a natural outcome of being the largest most powerful nation in the block. The reality however can not be denied, whatever the reasons, the EU is now nothing more than a German run club with member states reduced to the status of vassals.

Any further integration will happen on German terms to ensure their dominance.

Let's just say you're right (I don't think you are).
Even then, provided we (1) are removed from further political union (which was agreed by the EU) and (2) have our own currency so monetray policy can be decided by us , why shot ourselves in the foot economically by withdrawing now?
This sovereignty argument is BS. As long as the Germans aren't deploying PAnzers any country can leave at any time.

And not only does it hurt us economically, politically British policy has always been to counter German dominance in Europe.
This reverses several centuries of foreign policy.
Ironically Britain was willing to intervene in Europe and spill blood to save Poland in 1939 and now we've decided to leave Europe to stop some Poles coming over.

[WTFH]

"The reality" is something that you have little grasp of. It's an excuse for you to put in theories/lies/hyperbole/emotive words that are vague enough that if you were challenged you would claim they didn't mean what most people would interpret them to mean.

Has anyone explained to the haters of all things European that one of the terrible things the UK will no longer be part of when we leave the EU is Open Skies?