Reply to: But hey embrace the cultural differences

[original PM]

Talk about threads you forget starting....

On another note I actually work with a woman from Rochdale - and she went to school with a number of the girls who were abused in that area and also a number of the perpetrators.

Not going into details on here but generally the boys knew who the vulnerable girls were from being in school (e.g. those whose parents didn't care/who were always out late/underage drinking etc) and they selected them based on that criteria.

On and honour killings too.

[woohoo]

Local politicians, police and social services still have a lot to answer for as to how this went on for so long despite the evidence but there isn't clear evidence that child sexual offending as a whole is something that is disproportionate to certain ethnic groups. Maybe if we look at the evidence in another five to ten years, the picture will have changed.

What do we know about ethnicity of people involved in sexual offences against children

I doubt that the picture will change, as the article points out recording of ethnicity is patchy at best. Even if this did improve opponents would argue that unconscious bias was a problem with the reliability of the stats.

On top of this, it may be that in the wider population its more likely that abuse will be reported to the police rather than handled within the family.

[LondonManc]

most of who?

The names in the latest article; at least of Pakistani origin, if not born there. Are you sure you're on the right thread?

[edison]

so I think we are safe if we don't go into specifics.

The sad thing is that a lot of the victims are in care and the woeful state of children's care allows perverts of all races to abuse vulnerable children.

So I see three causes “imported cultural baggage”, Poor management of children's care & the Police fearing to prosecute people because of their ethnic origin. All of which is proven. Two of which involve ethnicity.

Excepting the fact that these crimes were pre 2017 in 2006 to 2009. There's still a lot more to come in this part of the world.

It might be years before the full picture emerges as there are still investigations in progress and more courts cases to come.

What does appear to be becoming clearer is that Asian gangs specifically targeted care homes and vulnerable children. These trials and investigations have been very high profile and there has been an element of extrapolating these cases to the wider national picture of sexual offending. However, a lot of evidence shows the vast majority of people convicted of sexual offences against children were white, i.e. in keeping with the ethnic breakdown of the population as a whole. The government's own figures from 2011-2013 were 85% of convictions for child sex offences were of white ethnicity versus only 3% of Asian ethnicity.

Maybe as more cases have come to light, the proportion of abusers with Asian origin has been rising? However, the evidence doesn't back that up (yet.) The Crown Prosecution Service stated that in 2015/16, of over 6000 defendants prosecuted for child sex offences, 67% were white, 4% were Asian.

As the link below from FullFact which summarises a lot of the statistical evidence available, the picture is still emerging. It could also be inferred that if the vast majority of offenders are white, they probably fit the profile one typically associates with child sex offending, i.e. someone normally already known to the victim such as a family member.

Local politicians, police and social services still have a lot to answer for as to how this went on for so long despite the evidence but there isn't clear evidence that child sexual offending as a whole is something that is disproportionate to certain ethnic groups. Maybe if we look at the evidence in another five to ten years, the picture will have changed.

What do we know about ethnicity of people involved in sexual offences against children

[BR14]

Most of them are pakistanis

most of who?

[Andy2]

Most of them are pakistanis

[Gibbon]

Luckily lessons were learnt back in 2017 and it won’t happen again


Police officer Amjad Ditta in group charged with sex offences Police officer Amjad Ditta in group charged with sex offences - BBC News


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

Excepting the fact that these crimes were pre 2017 in 2006 to 2009. There's still a lot more to come in this part of the world.

[GhostofTarbera]

Luckily lessons were learnt back in 2017 and it won’t happen again


Police officer Amjad Ditta in group charged with sex offences Police officer Amjad Ditta in group charged with sex offences - BBC News


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[vetran]

The court case may uncover why the defendants got away with it so long and as such on a public forum based in the UK we aren't actually allowed to discuss it openly until it is finished.

Btw the reason I pointed out two of the defendants had names associated with being Sikh is due to the EDL mob. One of the defendants has a Christian name and looks like they have prior convictions.

Well possible causes have been discussed at length by the authorities

Report about Asian grooming gangs was supressed to avoid inflaming racial tension - Telegraph

A report detailing how gangs of Asian men in Birmingham were grooming school girls with alcohol and drugs was not made public after senior officers warned that such information could inflame racial tensions ahead of the 2010 General Election.

Oxford grooming gang: We will regret ignoring Asian thugs who target white girls - Telegraph

Then Sue Berelowitz, the lamentably foolish deputy children’s commissioner, trots out her lame line that Asian men targeting white girls is “just one of a number of models”, even though such “models” account for an improbably large proportion of all gang sexual abuse. Did Berelowitz not hear Nazir Afzal, Chief Crown Prosecutor for North West England, when he blamed “imported cultural baggage” for appalling crimes by members of his own community? “The men think that women are some lesser being,” he said.

Rotherham child abuse scandal: 1,400 children exploited, report finds - BBC News

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...abuse-children

This is the fourth report clearly identifying the problem of child sexual exploitation (CSE) in Rotherham. The first, commissioned by the Home Office back in 2002, contained "severe criticisms" of the police and local council for their indifference to what was happening under their noses. But instead of tackling the issue, senior police and council officers claimed the data in the report had been "fabricated or exaggerated", and subjected the report's author to "personal hostility," leading to "suspicions of collusion and cover up", said Jay.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
Council and other officials sometimes thought youth workers were exaggerating the exploitation problem. Sometimes they were afraid of being accused of racism if they talked openly about the perpetrators in the town mostly being Pakistani taxi drivers.

Roger Stone, Rotherham's Labour council leader since 2003, said that he had stepped down with immediate effect following the publication of the Jay inquiry. "I believe it is only right that I, as leader, take responsibility on behalf of the council for the historic failings that are described so clearly in the report and it is my intention to do so," he said.

Jahangir Akhtar, the former deputy leader of the council, is accused in the report of naivety and potentially "ignoring a politically inconvenient truth" by insisting there was not a deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls. Police told the inquiry that some influential Pakistani councillors in Rotherham acted as barriers to communication on grooming issues.

so I think we are safe if we don't go into specifics.

The sad thing is that a lot of the victims are in care and the woeful state of children's care allows perverts of all races to abuse vulnerable children.

So I see three causes “imported cultural baggage”, Poor management of children's care & the Police fearing to prosecute people because of their ethnic origin. All of which is proven. Two of which involve ethnicity.

[SueEllen]

you are right, I read the first report quickly and took protest to mean they were protesting against the court case when in fact it was an EDL lynch mob. The reporting confused me you know you should describe the EDL as a raging mob like the Sun did. Do please remind me why the defendants got away with it so long?

The court case may uncover why the defendants got away with it so long and as such on a public forum based in the UK we aren't actually allowed to discuss it openly until it is finished.

Btw the reason I pointed out two of the defendants had names associated with being Sikh is due to the EDL mob. One of the defendants has a Christian name and looks like they have prior convictions.

[vetran]

And you once again leap to entirely the wrong conclusion - which shows quite a bit about your natural xenophobic "thinking" processes.

If only you'd kept to your normal reading practices, you'd have seen this: EDL protests as 27 men and two women appear in court over dozens of charges of rape and exploitation in Huddersfield 'grooming gang' case

Or are you going to claim the EDL think the alleged behaviour is defensible?

you are right, I read the first report quickly and took protest to mean they were protesting against the court case when in fact it was an EDL lynch mob. The reporting confused me you know you should describe the EDL as a raging mob like the Sun did. Do please remind me why the defendants got away with it so long?

Sorry I actually had to do some work.

[NotAllThere]

does seem odd people believe the behaviour is defensible & it is worth protesting...

And you once again leap to entirely the wrong conclusion - which shows quite a bit about your natural xenophobic "thinking" processes.

If only you'd kept to your normal reading practices, you'd have seen this: EDL protests as 27 men and two women appear in court over dozens of charges of rape and exploitation in Huddersfield 'grooming gang' case

Or are you going to claim the EDL think the alleged behaviour is defensible?

[vetran]

does seem odd people believe the behaviour is defensible & it is worth protesting. Regardless of ethnic origin.

Other than that a sad day, lets hope these perverts get locked up for a long time..

[shaunbhoy]

Are there reliable stats on this?

Sikh and ye shall find?

[SueEllen]

Makes those who ignored them accessories after the fact surely?

Only under recent law changes. Lots of these crimes are historical so these people get off.