Public Sector IR35 - Contracts outside IR35?

[TheFaQQer]

I've never worked in the public sector and know PS IR35 has been discussed to death in a number of threads on here, but I am interested to know how people could have gone back on new deals that put them outside the regulation?

Any thoughts/information about how this would have been achieved?

The working practices now include one or more from

1) lack of mutuality of obligation
2) right of substitution
3) lack of supervision, direction or control

when the previous contract included all three of those.

[RetSet]

No, I don't think he does...

Do explain to me what it is, then.

Feel free to quote HMRC's ESM, Dave Smith's book, and Anne Redston's book as you see fit.

[Mordac]

You do know that isn't MOO right?

You also do know regardless of the type of worker you are that if the company you provide services to or work for unilaterally changes their contract with you, you can down tools - commonly called a strike - or walk away citing breach of contract?

No, I don't think he does...

[northernladuk]

That's more like it.

[RetSet]

You do know that isn't MOO right?

You also do know regardless of the type of worker you are that if the company you provide services to or work for unilaterally changes their contract with you, you can down tools - commonly called a strike - or walk away citing breach of contract?

Good point well made. I had been operating on the working assumption that the contracts in question would tie in with the financial/ fiscal year end, so it's new contracts/ extensions offered that have been declined.

[SueEllen]

Yep, simples.

The contractors demonstrated an absence of MOO by refusing further work and just walking.

They were offered new contract that reflect the reality of the engagement, and Robert's your Dad's brother.

I wrote something similar about the team that put together the online status tool who walked out en masse, but NLUK seemed to think I didn't know what I'm talking about.

You do know that isn't MOO right?

You also do know regardless of the type of worker you are that if the company you provide services to or work for unilaterally changes their contract with you, you can down tools - commonly called a strike - or walk away citing breach of contract?

[RetSet]

Given the state of IR35 contracts within the PS I view it as a positive if people are getting the blanket IR35 caught decisions overturned.

However, it does pose the question that if people are walking out en masse and are subsequently managing to return with different contracts (and/or new deals) and are suddenly outside IR35 again then this will surely be ripe for a challenge from HMRC before too long?

No. For the reason I have already given

[ShandyDrinker]

Given the state of IR35 contracts within the PS I view it as a positive if people are getting the blanket IR35 caught decisions overturned.

However, it does pose the question that if people are walking out en masse and are subsequently managing to return with different contracts (and/or new deals) and are suddenly outside IR35 again then this will surely be ripe for a challenge from HMRC before too long?

[RetSet]

I wonder why....

Because the contracts originally offered didn't reflect the reality of the engagement?

[northernladuk]

Yep, simples.

The contractors demostrated an absence of MOO by refusing further work and just walking.

They were offered new contract that reflect the reality of the engagement, and Robert's your Dad's brother.

I wrote something similar about the team that put together the online status tool who walked out en masse, but NLUK seemed to think I didn't know what I'm talking about.

I wonder why....

[RetSet]

Yep, simples.

The contractors demonstrated an absence of MOO by refusing further work and just walking.

They were offered new contract that reflect the reality of the engagement, and Robert's your Dad's brother.

I wrote something similar about the team that put together the online status tool who walked out en masse, but NLUK seemed to think I didn't know what I'm talking about.

[ShandyDrinker]

Interesting comment in the following article from The Register:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0...e_home_office/


Some 200 contractors have left as a result of the way they handled IR35, said the insider, although a proportion have gone back on new deals that put them outside the regulation.

I've never worked in the public sector and know PS IR35 has been discussed to death in a number of threads on here, but I am interested to know how people could have gone back on new deals that put them outside the regulation?

Any thoughts/information about how this would have been achieved?