Reply to: Austria to ban full-face veil in public places

[woohoo]

Yeah because you know all Muslim women

Guessing they are the same as the rest of the non muslim women.

[SueEllen]

Taking your example about the bikini. In the past, we spend decades fighting moral nonsense that at the time was "fashion". Do you really believe that the Muslim women want's to be covered because of fashion or another excuse? I don't. If they have an opportunity of not wearing they opt for not wearing.

Yeah because you know all Muslim women

[Bee]

Tricky. But banning veils because some women are forced to wear them by husbands is like banning high heels because some women are forced to dress up my abusive husbands in the west.

Well neither do many of my views and I'm as English as they come. In fact many irreligious views by people here don't fit with liberal values either... the West contains many sub-groups of varying degrees of liberalism, we don't have a single cultural mentality like that. Look at the Methodists or the Quakers or Salvation Army, they're very much part of 'our' cultural heritage.

This whole issue of integration is approached badly in my view. Integration doesn't mean assimilation into some homogeneous cultural mix, it means different cultures living side by side.

Again you're taking as read they ARE subjected to it. Are they? I don't know, does anyone? I know lots of women people who due to their conservative Christian beliefs would never wear a bikini or low cut top. Are you going to argue they are wearing high-neck sweaters and ankle-length skirts because their husbands are subjecting them to overly harsh rules? Should they be forced to show their legs and cleavage the way Muslims are forced to show their faces?

Taking your example about the bikini. In the past, we spend decades fighting moral nonsense that at the time was "fashion". Do you really believe that the Muslim women want's to be covered because of fashion or another excuse? I don't. If they have an opportunity of not wearing they opt for not wearing.

[Bee]

How on earth has FGM become such a problem in the UK?

It's a problem in all the countries they migrated. If they can't do an FGM in the hospitals they do it at home.

[Bee]

Go back to school and learn English. Was told me twice that my statements are twisting the debates. Gosh, I'm really a stupid racist.

FTFY

[LondonManc]

So we are essentially saying in the main, the same thing, they are taught it, regardless of the sex doing the teaching?

Fancy that, the (separate, segregated) classes for women at the mosque are teaching the same as the male classes. Both sponsored by our chief arms buyer so UK government isn't going to intervene.

[MrMarkyMark]

The media spreading news about countries banning face coverings probably makes more teenage girls and women especially in their early twenties search for religious information online. Then there will be religious study groups both inside and outside Mosques that women only can attend.

Also it's not fair to blame this all on men as some Islamic scholars are women, though the only ones I've heard speak have all had liberal views.

So we are essentially saying in the main, the same thing, they are taught it, regardless of the sex doing the teaching?

[SueEllen]

In years gone by it seemed less necessary to "cover up".

I would suggest that the instruction come from the mosque either via the husbands or the speaker (male) directly.

Otherwise, why are we seeing the change in behavior, maybe its social media also?

Very simple question?

The media spreading news about countries banning face coverings probably makes more teenage girls and women especially in their early twenties search for religious information online. Then there will be religious study groups both inside and outside Mosques that women only can attend.

Also it's not fair to blame this all on men as some Islamic scholars are women, though the only ones I've heard speak have all had liberal views.

[MrMarkyMark]

It's because if you indulge peoples' ridiculous superstitions and/or unwarranted religiosity they naturally accentuate them and play them up beyond any justified extent, to make themselves seem "special".

For example, take that Muslim shop assistant who refused to touch a pork pie (or was it declined to check out someone with alcohol among their goods?). By apologizing for putting her in that "impossible situation", Tescos have simply encouraged thousands of other similar incidents of Muslims just wishing to virtue signal way beyond what their religion demands or reasonably expects.

It's the same as agonising over the supposed hordes of people with back ache and mental health problems and other "vulnerabilities". If they stopped receiving extra money and care, you'd see millions of miraculous recoveries overnight!

In fact a very devout young Muslim lad I worked with agreed with me when I said something similar.

Make of that what you will

[darmstadt]

Told you what that lad said, it's the Wahhabis sponsoring our mosques.

So if they're your Mosques then why don't you...oh, I don't know, paint them pink and lime green and hang a couple of disco balls inside

(I actually read that as Wasabis which put up a strange image )

[SueEllen]

Learn how to read English in the context of a debate.
Go back to school and stop twisting the debates.

Go back to school and learn English. You were told twice your statement meant that people should walk around nude. Gosh you really are stupid.

[OwlHoot]

Otherwise, why are we seeing the change in behavior, maybe its social media also?

Very simple question?

It's because if you indulge peoples' ridiculous superstitions and/or unwarranted religiosity they naturally accentuate them and play them up beyond any justified extent, to make themselves seem "special".

For example, take that Muslim shop assistant who refused to touch a pork pie (or was it declined to check out someone with alcohol among their goods?). By apologizing for putting her in that "impossible situation", Tescos have simply encouraged thousands of other similar incidents of Muslims just wishing to virtue signal way beyond what their religion demands or reasonably expects.

It's the same as agonising over the supposed hordes of people with back ache and mental health problems and other "vulnerabilities". If they stopped receiving extra money and care, you'd see millions of miraculous recoveries overnight!

[xoggoth]

banning veils because some women are forced to wear them by husbands is like banning high heels because some women are forced to dress up my abusive husbands in the west.

Quite agree. Without veils some may not even be allowed to go out at all. This obsession with the Muslim veil is pointless, we need to tackle the real problems, not the harmless symptoms. Eg:

a) We should only allow immigration by those who are aware of and totally accept the main principles and laws of our society and are prepared to integrate.
b) We should stop encouraging multi-culturalism. It isn't the harmless things, like how people dress, but the rejection of core principles of British society that is a problem. It is negative too when people never mix. Most news is bad news, we need to see the other side of people.
c) We need strict monitoring of what is taught in schools.

[MrMarkyMark]

Again you're taking as read they ARE subjected to it. Are they? I don't know, does anyone? I know lots of women people who due to their conservative Christian beliefs would never wear a bikini or low cut top. Are you going to argue they are wearing high-neck sweaters and ankle-length skirts because their husbands are subjecting them to overly harsh rules? Should they be forced to show their legs and cleavage the way Muslims are forced to show their faces?

In years gone by it seemed less necessary to "cover up".

I would suggest that the instruction come from the mosque either via the husbands or the speaker (male) directly.

Otherwise, why are we seeing the change in behavior, maybe its social media also?

Very simple question?

[d000hg]

And what can be done if it is?

Tricky. But banning veils because some women are forced to wear them by husbands is like banning high heels because some women are forced to dress up my abusive husbands in the west.

It's black and white for me. It doesn't fit with Western liberal values

Well neither do many of my views and I'm as English as they come. In fact many irreligious views by people here don't fit with liberal values either... the West contains many sub-groups of varying degrees of liberalism, we don't have a single cultural mentality like that. Look at the Methodists or the Quakers or Salvation Army, they're very much part of 'our' cultural heritage.

This whole issue of integration is approached badly in my view. Integration doesn't mean assimilation into some homogeneous cultural mix, it means different cultures living side by side.

I wouldn't want my wife or daughter subjected to this nor, I suspect, do you.

Again you're taking as read they ARE subjected to it. Are they? I don't know, does anyone? I know lots of women people who due to their conservative Christian beliefs would never wear a bikini or low cut top. Are you going to argue they are wearing high-neck sweaters and ankle-length skirts because their husbands are subjecting them to overly harsh rules? Should they be forced to show their legs and cleavage the way Muslims are forced to show their faces?