Reply to: Honesty/Integrity best policy with agents/clients? Umm nope

[northernladyuk]

Imagine being married to me! I know thats one of your fantasys though....

Hands off, bitch!

[northernladyuk]

To clarify for those saying "dont accept unless you can start"....

I had the call from an agency out of the blue a few days before xmas - I wasnt even looking. They told me about this client. I said no can do no notice period but they convinced me to have a chat anyway. So I did.

No-one was more surprised than me when they offered on the spot. At the time, I did say, Ah Ive got no notice period though. So we had a discussion where I'd negotiate with current client and try and work something out. They said its ok we can wait until Jan 16th anyway. I promised to keep in touch via the agency.

So straight away I spoke to client manager. Of course, nothing moved over xmas. After xmas I spoke to the agency to check its all still good. I asked them to check and let me know if client started to get twitchy about start date.

Last wednesday agency tell me client needs a date and they'd be ok with week after (23rd). So I tell agency ok but let me know if 16th is drop dead date.

So, after a bit of messing around with client management, I tell them sorry I AM leaving to start on the 23rd. Next day agency call me to tell me sorry client has given gig to someone else.

I would say we're all surprised.

[psychocandy]

He could bore them in to submission with his tedious tales. I'm close to admitting the client and agent are completely wrong and there is absolutely no blame to be laid at PC's door at all.

Imagine being married to me! I know thats one of your fantasys though....

[northernladuk]

To be honest, best extract yourself from there ASAP.
You aren't going to be looked on favourably, now you have tried to bail.

To be frank, with your negotiation skills, I'm not sure that you will be able to get the client to yield any favourable conditions for you, especially given the above.

He could bore them in to submission with his tedious tales. I'm close to admitting the client and agent are completely wrong and there is absolutely no blame to be laid at PC's door at all.

[MrMarkyMark]

I agree with you - it didnt bother me about the no notice period. It was a decent gig at the time and still is. No notice was just a small negative. But then you think you're never going to need it.

Going forward I would think again. All well and good to say I'm never going to do it but when things go on in your personal life then you're crossing your fingers that the client is going to let you go. And of course the agency will certainly not do you any favours.

Going forward with this gig, IF I stay (and there are a lot of IFs), bearing in mind my personal situation, its not going to be goer without at least something like a two week notice period.

To be honest, best extract yourself from there ASAP.
You aren't going to be looked on favourably, now you have tried to bail.

To be frank, with your negotiation skills, I'm not sure that you will be able to get the client to yield any favourable conditions for you, especially given the above.

[northernladuk]

From what I can see the following has happened.

Turns out this new contractor started straight after xmas.

New young IT manager offered me the gig on the phone before xmas. This guy was supremely confident on the phone. Looking at the guys linkedin profile and it reads like someone off "The Apprentice". He certainly knows how to polish a turd.

Looks very much hes acted like bertie big bollox and offered it to me then someone senior has said no. And then hes not had the balls to call me or the agency up to apologise and withdraw the offer. Of course, then weeks later when agency phone him to tell him PC is ready to start hes probably thought "OMG - forgot about that!".

Got to blame the agency a bit. Sounds like they didn't even speak to or follow up with the client after xmas. And this thing about them pushing for a start date was bollox.

Hey ho. You live and learn.....

Cool story Bro... But... Who cares. Why not just move on?

[psychocandy]

Absolutely this. I still can't help but think there were outs in PC's situation and we've always said the best way out of a contract is negotiation. If the contract was right then no notice wouldn't bother me. In a split decision it might factor. I've not needed notice in 9 years so I wouldn't be turning down good work because of it.

I agree with you - it didnt bother me about the no notice period. It was a decent gig at the time and still is. No notice was just a small negative. But then you think you're never going to need it.

Going forward I would think again. All well and good to say I'm never going to do it but when things go on in your personal life then you're crossing your fingers that the client is going to let you go. And of course the agency will certainly not do you any favours.

Going forward with this gig, IF I stay (and there are a lot of IFs), bearing in mind my personal situation, its not going to be goer without at least something like a two week notice period.

[psychocandy]

From what I can see the following has happened.

Turns out this new contractor started straight after xmas.

New young IT manager offered me the gig on the phone before xmas. This guy was supremely confident on the phone. Looking at the guys linkedin profile and it reads like someone off "The Apprentice". He certainly knows how to polish a turd.

Looks very much hes acted like bertie big bollox and offered it to me then someone senior has said no. And then hes not had the balls to call me or the agency up to apologise and withdraw the offer. Of course, then weeks later when agency phone him to tell him PC is ready to start hes probably thought "OMG - forgot about that!".

Got to blame the agency a bit. Sounds like they didn't even speak to or follow up with the client after xmas. And this thing about them pushing for a start date was bollox.

Hey ho. You live and learn.....

[psychocandy]

To clarify for those saying "dont accept unless you can start"....

I had the call from an agency out of the blue a few days before xmas - I wasnt even looking. They told me about this client. I said no can do no notice period but they convinced me to have a chat anyway. So I did.

No-one was more surprised than me when they offered on the spot. At the time, I did say, Ah Ive got no notice period though. So we had a discussion where I'd negotiate with current client and try and work something out. They said its ok we can wait until Jan 16th anyway. I promised to keep in touch via the agency.

So straight away I spoke to client manager. Of course, nothing moved over xmas. After xmas I spoke to the agency to check its all still good. I asked them to check and let me know if client started to get twitchy about start date.

Last wednesday agency tell me client needs a date and they'd be ok with week after (23rd). So I tell agency ok but let me know if 16th is drop dead date.

So, after a bit of messing around with client management, I tell them sorry I AM leaving to start on the 23rd. Next day agency call me to tell me sorry client has given gig to someone else.

[northernladuk]

But you're not taking account of the differences in different work areas. If you are, say, a DBA, and can be substituted fairly easily for another DBA since clients will believe, rightly or wrongly, that one DBA is the similar to the next then a verbal offer has less value. If you have a rare skill and the client has been hunting high and low for some time a verbal offer carries much more weight since it's more unlikely the agent will find a substitute.

But yes, anything which comes from an agent is by definition suspect. The client might only mention in passing that the delay is unwelcome for the agent to ditch you without a second thought for another candidate.

Good points made. Certainly something to consider.

[dweezil]

I think you are talking utter bollocks now and it's getting tedious. I'd be happy to give backword to a verbal contact in a heartbeat. It's verbal, there is no official commitment. It's nice to be offered it but it means nothing. I'd be a tad annoyed if someone welched on a verbal offer yes but I wouldn't be crying like a bitch on a forum of my peers about it. I would use the verbal offer as flexibility and it's tenative at best. They've done exactly the same to you.

But you're not taking account of the differences in different work areas. If you are, say, a DBA, and can be substituted fairly easily for another DBA since clients will believe, rightly or wrongly, that one DBA is the similar to the next then a verbal offer has less value. If you have a rare skill and the client has been hunting high and low for some time a verbal offer carries much more weight since it's more unlikely the agent will find a substitute.

But yes, anything which comes from an agent is by definition suspect. The client might only mention in passing that the delay is unwelcome for the agent to ditch you without a second thought for another candidate.

[SlipTheJab]

Absolutely this. I still can't help but think there were outs in PC's situation and we've always said the best way out of a contract is negotiation. If the contract was right then no notice wouldn't bother me. In a split decision it might factor. I've not needed notice in 9 years so I wouldn't be turning down good work because of it.

Same here, never given notice yet.

[ladymuck]

I tend not to start looking until I know I've got a definite finish date. Someone telling me the market's good when I'm two months into a six month stint means nothing to me.

I'm the same. I have jumped ship mid contract but it's not something I do lightly. I will (~97% of the time) see out the term I've agreed to.

[LondonManc]

Absolutely this. I still can't help but think there were outs in PC's situation and we've always said the best way out of a contract is negotiation. If the contract was right then no notice wouldn't bother me. In a split decision it might factor. I've not needed notice in 9 years so I wouldn't be turning down good work because of it.

I tend not to start looking until I know I've got a definite finish date. Someone telling me the market's good when I'm two months into a six month stint means nothing to me.

[northernladuk]

If it's a three month contract for an extra £200pd, I'd sign it. It's in my limited company's best interests.

Absolutely this. I still can't help but think there were outs in PC's situation and we've always said the best way out of a contract is negotiation. If the contract was right then no notice wouldn't bother me. In a split decision it might factor. I've not needed notice in 9 years so I wouldn't be turning down good work because of it.