Reply to: Not all clients are bad - nice one here

[jamesbrown]

Sub - probably won't work.

Why? You don't have an unfettered RoS? If so, that's your fault. If you had one, the client would need to honour it or you'd have grounds for termination.

It's funny how flies always find a turd.

[northernladuk]

Understand a client can, at any point, tell me theres no work please dont come in. But can I do the same? i.e. say not available for last 5 weeks.
.

You already do the same. You are unavailable for holidays and the like aren't you?
There is a massive difference between your examples. One is business driven decision which is fundamentally how we work and core to your IR35 defence. The other is just plain breach.

[Willapp]

That's not MoO. Try doing a search.

Yeah MOO is about not being obliged to do other work than stated in your contract. If your contract is to deliver project X, then you are obliged to do that to the best of your ability. They can't come to you and say, actually you also need to deliver project Y - you can say no, it's not in my contract. That's MOO.

[northernladuk]

MOO - Always confused about this one. Understand a client can, at any point, tell me theres no work please dont come in. But can I do the same? i.e. say not available for last 5 weeks.
.

That's not MoO. Try doing a search.

[psychocandy]

Well its not going so well. Chased the local guy and looks like head office are dragging this one out.

I get the feeling they're thinking if they dont say anything either way it'll go away. Obviously, if they tell me no they know Im not going to be overjoyed.

So, mid Jan is missed already I think. Its going to come to a point where new client is going to give me a drop dead latest date methinks.

Which gives me a bit of a dilema. Don't really want to lose the new gig. Normally I'd just think oh well I'll have to stay but with the family aspect.

OK. So options.....

Sub - probably won't work.

MOO - Always confused about this one. Understand a client can, at any point, tell me theres no work please dont come in. But can I do the same? i.e. say not available for last 5 weeks.

I'd rather not do this to be honest, but there we go. Aware also that its going to upset both the client (well head office at least) as well as the agency and possibly Im going to have the refusal to pay last invoice game.

Even in the unlikely event that the agency sues me, am I right they can only claim actual losses (i.e. their margin) and they must mitigate this? We're probably talking about 2 days billing then for 25 days lost margin.

[Bee]

No matter what you guys are saying about the notice period, it's always useful to have it in the contract.

[psychocandy]

Not to start an argument with you, as you're clearly the font of all knowledge and always right, but what you say is absolute tosh, IR35 or not. The clue is in the word contract; the terms contained are enforceable albeit at a cost, should either party want to go to court. I make sure that notice periods are always equal for both me and the client - twice I've been asked to sign contracts where the client can give me 5 days notice, and me 3 months. Both times I've had the contracts changed as I refuse to sign unequal contracts.

But hey, you know best. Please don't feel the need to try and argue back NLUK, and bully your views on others as you always do, as I can see all you ever want to do is be a keyboard warrior and to be honest, I can't be @rsed to respond to any reply. Bullies are best ignored

You can "try" but there are clients out there who will not give the contractor a notice period. Ever. So they'll just say no thanks.

[Whorty]

Yep but there are also terms in the contract that means the client can effectively terminate you immediatly. They just withdraw any work which means you have zero hours on your time sheet and you don't get paid however long your period. Effective immediate termination so notice period is a bit irrelevant.

It's just common sense to negotiate out a 3 month notice and they are happy to so do as they know it's pretty irrelevant as per my comment above.

What is it about uneven notices that are so bad that you won't sign? 3 months is pretty unreasonable whatever.

It's not bullying. The comment about breaking a leg shows you don't quite understand so some more reading would be worthwhile. That's not bullying. I'd add some growsum to your notice period research.

To answer your reasonable questions ...

there are also terms in the contract that means the client can effectively terminate you immediatly. - true, and if they insist on this clause for them, then I will have it added for me too. Again, the aim is to keep the terms and clauses in the contract equal. Agree, no timesheet = no pay ... but we should both have that option at our disposal and the term should be in the contract.

The 3 months is unreasonable, but I've seen it a few times and i've had it changed. What the companies are trying to do is tie you in so you can't leave (or are scared to leave within the 3 month period) but they have their own 5 day notice. They want the power, but I won't allow that. If a company is thinking like that before i've even joined then I wonder how trustworthy they are.

I've studied some contract law, so I do understand a bit although I'm not a legal eagle (studied it as part of my CIMA studies). i understand enough to know that i want equal power terms - my skills are in demand so I feel I can request this in a contract. I will not allow my company to have unequal terms via a service contract with a client that is my (or my company's) detriment. Of course contracts don't have to be 'fair', but if you have the power to make them fair rather than be railroaded then i would advise you should.

[northernladuk]

Yep but there are also terms in the contract that means the client can effectively terminate you immediatly. They just withdraw any work which means you have zero hours on your time sheet and you don't get paid however long your period. Effective immediate termination so notice period is a bit irrelevant.

It's just common sense to negotiate out a 3 month notice and they are happy to so do as they know it's pretty irrelevant as per my comment above.

What is it about uneven notices that are so bad that you won't sign? 3 months is pretty unreasonable whatever.

It's not bullying. The comment about breaking a leg shows you don't quite understand so some more reading would be worthwhile. That's not bullying. I'd add some growsum to your notice period research.

[Whorty]

You need to get a better grip on notices I am afraid.
Notice periods vary. Some the same, some unequal and in some cases there isn't any. IR35 wise no notice is best.

At the end of the day they are pretty irrelevant if the clients wants rid. We work T&M. If the client doesn't give us work we stop earning there and then regardless of notice.

If you can't fulfil you obligations to the contract then notice period is irrelevant. It's kinda dead there and then and probably will be terminated under other aspects of the contract.

A bit of research and better understanding of the contract clauses and notice periods wouldn't go amiss.

Not to start an argument with you, as you're clearly the font of all knowledge and always right, but what you say is absolute tosh, IR35 or not. The clue is in the word contract; the terms contained are enforceable albeit at a cost, should either party want to go to court. I make sure that notice periods are always equal for both me and the client - twice I've been asked to sign contracts where the client can give me 5 days notice, and me 3 months. Both times I've had the contracts changed as I refuse to sign unequal contracts.

But hey, you know best. Please don't feel the need to try and argue back NLUK, and bully your views on others as you always do, as I can see all you ever want to do is be a keyboard warrior and to be honest, I can't be @rsed to respond to any reply. Bullies are best ignored

[northernladuk]

https://www.crunch.co.uk/blog/freela...s-a-good-idea/

[northernladuk]

How can you have a contract with no notice period for you but client has a 1 week notice period? Doesn't everyone insist that notice periods are equal on both sides?

What would have happened should you have, say, broken a leg or something and can't get into the client office ... if you have no notice period you can invoke you'd be up the creek without a paddle

You need to get a better grip on notices I am afraid.
Notice periods vary. Some the same, some unequal and in some cases there isn't any. IR35 wise no notice is best.

At the end of the day they are pretty irrelevant if the clients wants rid. We work T&M. If the client doesn't give us work we stop earning there and then regardless of notice.

If you can't fulfil you obligations to the contract then notice period is irrelevant. It's kinda dead there and then and probably will be terminated under other aspects of the contract.

A bit of research and better understanding of the contract clauses and notice periods wouldn't go amiss.

[Whorty]

Its a proper contract albeit three months with no notice period for me. Client (the consultancy) has a one week notice which the service manager will invoke if hes allowed to. Which clears things up with the agency.

But obviously I cant exect him to put his neck on the line for me.

How can you have a contract with no notice period for you but client has a 1 week notice period? Doesn't everyone insist that notice periods are equal on both sides?

What would have happened should you have, say, broken a leg or something and can't get into the client office ... if you have no notice period you can invoke you'd be up the creek without a paddle

[Bee]

Not a done deal yet Bee

I hope that my congrats in advance shall not give you bad luck.

[psychocandy]

Congratulations.

Not a done deal yet Bee