Reply to: Irish Passport & EU Freedom or stay Brit for SC Security clearance work

[Tightfit]

Yes you have to declare it, but it's not going to stop you getting or retaining clearance. Not declaring it would be seen as deception on the application and see it thrown out.

I really am struggling to see what your point is about all this. Brexit is not going to affect anyones chances of getting clearance.

British jobs for British & Irish workers !!!

[SueEllen]

Not sure if this is relevant, but I am adopted, so I had a name change about 46 years ago. My dearly beloved just went through (the highest) clearance for her new role, and I had to track and trace my original birth certificate as part of the process. At great expense, I did obtain said item, but the handwriting was of such poor quality that I could have claimed to have been bleedin' anybody. Any suggestions?

My birth certificate is written in black ink so I wouldn't worry about it. As long as they can see the area of the country you were born in then they can check for themselves on that local authority register.

[Mordac]

Got it straight from the Vetting Agencies helpline yesterday. Your parents change of nationality does make a material difference to any existing or future application for
SC, DV, etc, etc and must be declared - irrespective of whether their new
nationality is to one of our buddy, buddy allies or not.

As you say it might not make any difference to anyone's present or future SC - unlike those more serious ones, you listed above but it has to be declared nevertheless.

Not sure if this is relevant, but I am adopted, so I had a name change about 46 years ago. My dearly beloved just went through (the highest) clearance for her new role, and I had to track and trace my original birth certificate as part of the process. At great expense, I did obtain said item, but the handwriting was of such poor quality that I could have claimed to have been bleedin' anybody. Any suggestions?

[DaveB]

Got it straight from the Vetting Agencies helpline yesterday. Your parents change of nationality does make a material difference to any existing or future application for
SC, DV, etc, etc and must be declared - irrespective of whether their new
nationality is to one of our buddy, buddy allies or not.

As you say it might not make any difference to anyone's present or future SC - unlike those more serious ones, you listed above but it has to be declared nevertheless.

Yes you have to declare it, but it's not going to stop you getting or retaining clearance. Not declaring it would be seen as deception on the application and see it thrown out.

I really am struggling to see what your point is about all this. Brexit is not going to affect anyones chances of getting clearance.

[stek]

Almost forgot - The Met Office in Exeter & maybe The Ordnance Survey in Southampton and DVLC in Swansea, lets start a thread on all these organistions that require SC of their contractors and employees.

Been DVLA for yonks!!

[SimonMac]

Almost forgot - The Met Office in Exeter & maybe The Ordnance Survey in Southampton and DVLC in Swansea, lets start a thread on all these organistions that require SC of their contractors and employees.

The Met Office is still a government agency, just moved from the MOD to BIS

[Tightfit]

You are making a lot of assumptions about the clearance process. It's not about "loyalty to the crown" it's about whether you can be trusted to handle sensitive information, whether you are at risk of blackmail or other coercion, or subject to circumstances where you might be tempted to profit from the access you have.

Provided you are open and honest in the information you give then the chances are that unless you are heavily in debt, have a drug or gambling problem or a criminal past involving fraud or theft, you will be cleared. Lying on the application is generally what gets you refused clearance.

Despite what the frothing Brexiters might say, we do actually trust our European partners on security matters and having a partner or other family who hold dual nationality or may have changed nationalities for another European country is really neither here nor there. Brexit really won't change anything with regard to getting clearance. Nationality only really becomes an issue if it involves countries we don't trust like Russia, China and large parts of the Middle East.

Got it straight from the Vetting Agencies helpline yesterday. Your parents change of nationality does make a material difference to any existing or future application for
SC, DV, etc, etc and must be declared - irrespective of whether their new
nationality is to one of our buddy, buddy allies or not.

As you say it might not make any difference to anyone's present or future SC - unlike those more serious ones, you listed above but it has to be declared nevertheless.

[Tightfit]

Let me see now - how many non government organisations ask for SC ?

Well theres:
Rolls Royce, Fujitsu, HP, BAE Systems, Experian, Pomeroy and a multitude of Network Operation Centres
require their Cisco router engineers to be SC cleared these days.
There's more, I'm sure.

Almost forgot - The Met Office in Exeter & maybe The Ordnance Survey in Southampton and DVLC in Swansea, lets start a thread on all these organistions that require SC of their contractors and employees.

[bobspud]

Let me see now - how many non government organisations ask for SC ?

Well theres:
Rolls Royce, Fujitsu, HP, BAE Systems, Experian, Pomeroy and a multitude of Network Operation Centres
require their Cisco router engineers to be SC cleared these days.
There's more, I'm sure.

Yep thats out of ignorance not necessity but either way if thats what they are looking for out of a candidate, then you would not fit in as you have never worked in that type of environment. I used to think that was a bad idea until I worked with a bunch of ex bankers that more or less destroyed the government department they were "helping" because they didn't get the idea that achieving a 3 month delivery of the wrong thing leaving 10 years of support issues was not progress.

[DaveB]

Now here's a thought for all those sons and daughters in IT with parents either living or retired abroad in a member state of the EU, like the popular Expat destinations of France and Spain.

Obviously those British Expats are all fretting about their future status in the EU and during the enormous vacuum of anything concrete from May and the Brexit
team.
Many are going for French, Spanish or whatever other EU country nationality, in order to safeguard and retain their rights and future status, together with free movement in the EU.

Now here's the nasty bit - Spain for example doesn't recognize Dual Nationality and in order for your British Expat parents to become Spanish citizens with the desired Spanish passport - they will have to satisfy the Spanish authorities that they have renounced their British citizenship and nationality.

As we all know - when filling in forms for SC Security clearance, we all have to provide information about our parents and their background, nationality and everything.

Now I don't know how the authorities at the Defence Business Services National Security Vetting Agency would view your Mom and Dad renouncing British citizenship and going over to the other side ( namely Spain and the EU ) after Britain separates from the EU.
But I'm sure they are not going to look kindly upon it, as this could be viewed as evidence of the families gross disloyalty to the Crown !!

One things for certain, for those that are going for SC Security clearance or already
hold SC Security clearance - it's a material change in your circumstances that has to be declared !!

You are making a lot of assumptions about the clearance process. It's not about "loyalty to the crown" it's about whether you can be trusted to handle sensitive information, whether you are at risk of blackmail or other coercion, or subject to circumstances where you might be tempted to profit from the access you have.

Provided you are open and honest in the information you give then the chances are that unless you are heavily in debt, have a drug or gambling problem or a criminal past involving fraud or theft, you will be cleared. Lying on the application is generally what gets you refused clearance.

Despite what the frothing Brexiters might say, we do actually trust our European partners on security matters and having a partner or other family who hold dual nationality or may have changed nationalities for another European country is really neither here nor there. Brexit really won't change anything with regard to getting clearance. Nationality only really becomes an issue if it involves countries we don't trust like Russia, China and large parts of the Middle East.

[Tightfit]

Knock on effect of British Expat parents giving up British Nationality !!

Now here's a thought for all those sons and daughters in IT with parents either living or retired abroad in a member state of the EU, like the popular Expat destinations of France and Spain.

Obviously those British Expats are all fretting about their future status in the EU and during the enormous vacuum of anything concrete from May and the Brexit
team.
Many are going for French, Spanish or whatever other EU country nationality, in order to safeguard and retain their rights & future status, together with free movement in the EU.

Now here's the nasty bit - Spain for example doesn't recognize Dual Nationality and in order for your British Expat parents to become Spanish citizens with the desired Spanish passport - they will have to satisfy the Spanish authorities that they have renounced their British citizenship and nationality.

As we all know - when filling in forms for SC Security clearance, we all have to provide information about our parents and their background, nationality and everything.
Of course it gets even worst when graduating to DV cleared jobs.

Now I don't know how the authorities at the Defence Business Services National Security Vetting Agency would view your Mom and Dad renouncing British citizenship and going over to the other side ( namely Spain and the EU ) after Britain separates from the EU.
But I'm sure they are not going to look upon it kindly, as this could be viewed as evidence of the families gross disloyalty to the Crown !!

One things for certain, for those that are going for SC Security clearance or already
hold SC Security clearance - it's a material change in your circumstances that has to be declared !!

[Tightfit]

A few points to consider.

1) SC if you don't have one now you probably aren't going to get one. So stop worrying. SC clearances are becoming less of an issue with many departments moving to Disclosure Scotland / BC. With SC/DV for people that actually really need them. The government has also changed its classification markings to make life mostly easier. But If you don't work in Government you are not like to be a cultural fit and you will actually struggle to understand why we do things the way we do. Most of the time the guys I see fail in Government jobs are the ones that have no prior experience in the field. For that reason its not SC I want when I look at candidates its previous stints with government that last over 12 months. We all know that nothing happens in 3 or 6 months so lots of little Government gigs will just show you don't fit in.

2) Before you go the the expense of trying the SI route why don't you just use the EU free movement rules to go find a job in Europe

3) stop whining about the end of the world because we chose to get the ***** out of dodge and walk away from a massively corrupt and unaccountable system. It shows far more lack of character to those around you than not having the right passport or clearance.



Good luck.

Let me see now - how many non government organisations ask for SC ?

Well theres:
Rolls Royce, Fujitsu, HP, BAE Systems, Experian, Pomeroy and a multitude of Network Operation Centres
require their Cisco router engineers to be SC cleared these days.
There's more, I'm sure.

[Tightfit]

Why can't you keep both passports?

Applying for my German passport, don't have to give up my UK passport until Brexit completes.

Either way, still manage to work on SC jobs in the UK despite being resident in Germany.

Of course it's best for the SC contractor to have maintained UK residency for the past 5 years.
Any long gigs outside the UK and Non resident UK for any length of time - would be an issue.

[Tightfit]

If you have the skills, getting the option to work in Europe is a no brainer. Post Brexit the contract market is likely to be curtailed, as some multinationals will certainly relocate to the EU.

And low and behold, it came to pass in a Post Brexit Britain that the only jobs left in the UK are those requiring SC Security Clearance or above.
All the rest went offshore years ago.

[eek]

A few points to consider.

We all know that nothing happens in 3 or 6 months so lots of little Government gigs will just show you don't fit in.

And that's why the Government wastes billions on IT projects....