Reply to: Freedom of movement on the table

[Mordac]

If you look at the psephology of this it's fairly clear that the young were saved by some wise elders who dreamed of the resurrection of democracy.
Now the same wise folk know full well that we actually have some leverage over the EU.
im just trying to bring some fantasy into dreamland, but I'm fairly sure events will prove me utterly delusional soon enough.

FTFY

[CretinWatcher]

Lots of people I like and respect voted remain.
Lots of people I like and respect voted leave.

The fallout and stupid seems to be entirely from politicians looking to push their own agendas, rather than put the interests of the country first.

If you look at the psephology of this it's fairly clear that the young were shafted by some old gits who dreamed of the resurrection of the empire (and other bollocks)
Now the same innumerate cretins actually believe that we actually have some leverage over the EU.
im just trying to bring some reality into dreamland, but I'm fairly sure events will prove me right soon enough.

[Mordac]

Yeah let's do this stage X business, like some childish idiots.
If you seriously think this is to the benefit of the country all I can say is, let's see, shall we? I would be happy to be proved wrong, but I won't be.
Meanwhile I have a family to look after and I will be looking to do whatever to keep them safe from the fallout from the stupid.

Seriously, someone allowed you to procreate? Was rohypnol involved?

[mudskipper]

... the fallout from the stupid.

Lots of people I like and respect voted remain.
Lots of people I like and respect voted leave.

The fallout and stupid seems to be entirely from politicians looking to push their own agendas, rather than put the interests of the country first.

[CretinWatcher]

Is it possible to post something without calling someone an idiot or a thicko. It's getting beyond tedious. Doesnt help whatever point you are making.

Thicko is as thicko says or does. Simple.

[northernladuk]

Is it possible to post something without calling someone an idiot or a thicko. It's getting beyond tedious. Doesnt help whatever point you are making.

[CretinWatcher]

Do I need to highlight every conditional for you? Perhaps if I couple an appropriate typographic emphasis with very short sentences, you'll process these bite-sized concepts more readily. The strategic advantage is conditional upon our having decided to leave. Do we trigger Article 50 sooner or later? You keep wittering on about the decision itself. Stage 2.

Yeah let's do this stage X business, like some childish idiots.
If you seriously think this is to the benefit of the country all I can say is, let's see, shall we? I would be happy to be proved wrong, but I won't be.
Meanwhile I have a family to look after and I will be looking to do whatever to keep them safe from the fallout from the stupid.

[jamesbrown]

You keep wittering on about "strategic advantage" completely ignoring points others as well as I have made: we come from this from a position of weakness economically and all the while uncertainty exists no one will invest here in preference to the continent, no key workers will come from Europe, spending will fall.
Our base economy is weak and unbalanced.
Soon all the anecdotal stuff Im hearing from people I trust are going to feed into the statistics, the damage is happening right now.

Do I need to highlight every conditional for you? Perhaps if I couple an appropriate typographic emphasis with very short sentences, you'll process these bite-sized concepts more readily. The strategic advantage is conditional upon our having decided to leave. Do we trigger Article 50 sooner or later? You keep wittering on about the decision itself. Stage 2.

[CretinWatcher]

For once? I've agreed with the artist formerly known as Sadguru on numerous previous occasions, perhaps as many as three

We're not "losing" the single market. It's very sloppy to talk about "access" to the single market. Detail matters, in terms of tariff and non-tariff barriers. In principle, the EU, as a block, would lose by imposing tariff and non-tariff barriers, both in absolute and relative terms. However, as I say, there's a reasonable prospect that the EU institutions will be idealistic rather than pragmatic and, in that case, we'd be silly to return fire. Ultimately, we have a free-floating currency, which is a massive advantage.

Somewhat perversely, I'd expect May to be far more aggressive in pursuing our departure than most Brexiters. She knows she's being watched, and there's a slim parliamentary majority. Had Johnson won, I think there was a real possibility that Brexit would've been Bremain-light, potentially even ratified by a GE. I don't think that now, based on the remaining candidates and what they've argued in recent days.

Article 50 provides us with a strategic advantage (as I mentioned in another thread, it's worth watching the recent Treasury Committee hearing), and that's precisely why the EU is pushing very hard for us to pull the trigger:

Parliamentlive.tv - Treasury Committee

(Somewhat difficult viewing as a Brexiter, but I largely agree with them, and I never suggested it would be easy )

You keep wittering on about "strategic advantage" completely ignoring points others as well as I have made: we come from this from a position of weakness economically and all the while uncertainty exists no one will invest here in preference to the continent, no key workers will come from Europe, spending will fall.
Our base economy is weak and unbalanced.
Soon all the anecdotal stuff Im hearing from people I trust are going to feed into the statistics, the damage is happening right now.

[jamesbrown]

Yes for once we agree.
And as this becomes clear and the costs of losing the single market become apparent, Article 50 will be kicked into the long grass

For once? I've agreed with the artist formerly known as Sadguru on numerous previous occasions, perhaps as many as three

We're not "losing" the single market. It's very sloppy to talk about "access" to the single market. Detail matters, in terms of tariff and non-tariff barriers. In principle, the EU, as a block, would lose by imposing tariff and non-tariff barriers, both in absolute and relative terms. However, as I say, there's a reasonable prospect that the EU institutions will be idealistic rather than pragmatic and, in that case, we'd be silly to return fire. Ultimately, we have a free-floating currency, which is a massive advantage.

Somewhat perversely, I'd expect May to be far more aggressive in pursuing our departure than most Brexiters. She knows she's being watched, and there's a slim parliamentary majority. Had Johnson won, I think there was a real possibility that Brexit would've been Bremain-light, potentially even ratified by a GE. I don't think that now, based on the remaining candidates and what they've argued in recent days.

Article 50 provides us with a strategic advantage (as I mentioned in another thread, it's worth watching the recent Treasury Committee hearing), and that's precisely why the EU is pushing very hard for us to pull the trigger:

Parliamentlive.tv - Treasury Committee

(Somewhat difficult viewing as a Brexiter, but I largely agree with them, and I never suggested it would be easy )

[CretinWatcher]

We're going to hear a lot of noise in the coming months. Personally, I doubt we'll get much movement on any of the freedoms, even a moderate reconstitution towards "labour" or "workers" as originally envisaged. They knew that Hamface could lose this referendum, and they settled on temporary restrictions to in-work benefits. Fundamentally, the EU bureaucrats are idealists, not pragmatists, and they will seize the vacuum that emerges from any disagreement between the heads of state.

Yes for once we agree.
And as this becomes clear and the costs of losing the single market become apparent, Article 50 will be kicked into the long grass

[SueEllen]

This may be of interest linky

[jamesbrown]

We're going to hear a lot of noise in the coming months. Personally, I doubt we'll get much movement on any of the freedoms, even a moderate reconstitution towards "labour" or "workers" as originally envisaged. They knew that Hamface could lose this referendum, and they settled on temporary restrictions to in-work benefits. Fundamentally, the EU bureaucrats are idealists, not pragmatists, and they will seize the vacuum that emerges from any disagreement between the heads of state.

[WTFH]

GB9, what do you mean by this?
The article says that you can't discuss freedom of trade without also discussing freedom of movement.
Do you interpret it some other way?

[FatLazyContractor]