Reply to: Is the UK following the standard historical pattern of decline for maritime empires?

[vetran]

Well we're going back to Victorian times - minus the power, influence and wealth (except for the elite of course)

yeah because being a hated member of a pan Global Empire was so much better for us.

[CretinWatcher]

In Victorian times the UK was the greatest country on earth.

Of course, very few of its citizens shared in that wealth.

Well we're going back to Victorian times - minus the power, influence and wealth (except for the elite of course)

[BrilloPad]

In Victorian times the UK was the greatest country on earth.

Of course, very few of its citizens shared in that wealth.

[CretinWatcher]

The one killed off by Harold Wilson which was showing significantly better results than the Nazi equivalent and was 'Greener' to boot? That one before we joined the EEC?

Yes that's the one. The one we couldn't afford. Right before we teamed up with the French to make Concorde because no single medium sized country can afford to have a space program and make new large planes.

[NigelJK]

Yeah our space program

The one killed off by Harold Wilson which was showing significantly better results than the Nazi equivalent and was 'Greener' to boot? That one before we joined the EEC?

[CretinWatcher]

They all followed steps 1-3 though - the fighting to establish empires and keep them, finally losing them, is a common theme. After the loss all empires had a period of prosperity while they became soft and declined. All 4 empires mentioned after a period of tolerance became insular. In modern times Spain and Portugal and Greece all had right wing dictatorships right up till the 70s. So I think we're in the early stages, although bad decisions can accelarate the process...

Anyway I'm no historian, just finding commonalities in my reading ...

[vetran]

Pretty sure that Greece & Rome hit a low point when they were invaded by Foreigners (Romans,Barbarians)

The Moors effectively Invaders were ousted by the Natives when they wanted their country back.

The Portuguese lost to the Dutch & French in various territory squabbles.

Span of course Britain put paid to when they aggressively tried to invade.

Not quite sure where your point is going? Are we fighting invaders or demanding our country back?

[CretinWatcher]

The solution is obvious...



... become the First Intergalactic Empire, the race is on ...

Yeah our space program, let alone aerospace, is really going to thrive now

[darmstadt]

The solution is obvious...



... become the First Intergalactic Empire, the race is on ...

I think the Germans and French might have first dibs: ESA budget 2015 / Highlights / For Media / ESA

[oracleslave]

1-3 Yes

4,5,6,7 - remains to be seen but that looks to be the path down which we're headed.

[AtW]

The solution is obvious...



... become the First Intergalactic Empire, the race is on ...

[original PM]

Seems to be so.

1. A risk-taking elite explores far lands, establishes bases there, eventually asset strips and plunders them, uses the wealth and riches to improve its technology which gives it dominance for some time.
2. Eventually it becomes weak since its takes it top dog position for granted, its workforce becomes soft and pampered and cannot compete.
3. It turns in on itself and becomes right-wing and intolerant. The right wing demagogues make noises about national renewal.
4. The country becomes insular and closed to foreign influences.
5. Innovation and technology wither, the country loses its prosperity.
6. It becomes more right wing and even more closed to foreign influence. Politcial unstability is rife.
7 Eventually democracy is reestablished, by this time the country has lost all its power.

Happened to the Greek, Moorish, Portuguese and Spanish empires.
We are now starting Stage 3.

Well as they say those who study history are doomed to watch those who didn't, repeat it.

Or maybe we might not do that?

[CretinWatcher]

No.

Ok

[Old Greg]

Expand.

No.

[CretinWatcher]

No.

Expand.