SAS & Mandleslime sitting in a tree

[SueEllen]

If Turkey gets in the EU, Germany will be one of the first countries to rip up Schengen.

In no way shape or form do they want an increase in their Turkish population.

Also their politicians like ours are self-serving.

Incidentally Turks already have easy access to the EU so if they want to come here to do care work or crop picking it's not hard to get a visa.

[xoggoth]

Of course there will be problems with leaving but, look at what the EU has done - the failed Eurozone, mass migration from poorer countries, the Schengen agreement that is now falling apart are just the major ones.

Can we have really any confidence that there will not be even more problems if we stay in the EU? What will accession of the likes of Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and Turkey do for migration flows and cohesion of our society or the porosity of borders with nations outside of Europe? Can we be sure that financial regulations with major effect on our banking sector will not be voted through by other nations where it is not so important? How long before we are expected to merge our defence into a common European one?

Camoron says we are jumping into the unknown and to some extent that is true but we are equally doing that if we stay in. At least on our own we will have some say over our future.

[original PM]

All this exit stuff seems to revolve around the fact that all of sudden no country in the world will trade with Britain if we leave...

Maybe if we left we could negotiate better deals without the EU...

Just saying loike...

What is seems to be is a bunch of old men getting upset cos their might loose some dosh - and fook the UK

On another note I was in dat der London today and some geezer was punting Real Socialism paper....

which would be fine except he seemed to be banging on about new Marxist Socialism.... now I am not a history professor but was Marx alive a whole back and in general there is nothing new about socialism.

anyway made for interesting chat having a smoke outside Euston

[vetran]

Rather obvious point, but one wonders why the govt. would be denying access to information if the case for is staying in so strong. What are they trying to hide? That the agreement with Camoron is not actually binding and can be overturned for example?

PS As for trade agreements the EU has many, including with some very small, nations. They recently negotiated a free trade deal with Canada with whom total annual trade, both ways, is 59bn euros. Would they seriously want to damage exports to us of some 289bn pounds? Don't think Volkswagon etc would appreciate that. WTO agreements also prevent discrimination.

Canada-European Union: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA)

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...91/SN06091.pdf

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...30/SN06730.pdf

it makes no sense of course as you say the case is so strong, but it should be obvious we should stay in (apparently).

[xoggoth]

Rather obvious point, but one wonders why the govt. would be denying access to information if the case for is staying in so strong. What are they trying to hide? That the agreement with Camoron is not actually binding and can be overturned for example?

PS As for trade agreements the EU has many, including with some very small, nations. They recently negotiated a free trade deal with Canada with whom total annual trade, both ways, is 59bn euros. Would they seriously want to damage exports to us of some 289bn pounds? Don't think Volkswagon etc would appreciate that. WTO agreements also prevent discrimination.

http://international.gc.ca/trade-agr...px?lang=eng#p1

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...91/SN06091.pdf

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...30/SN06730.pdf

[vetran]

Peter Mandelson tells Brexit ministers to stop 'whinging' about referendum report ban  | Daily Mail Online

Speaking in the City, Lord Mandelson said: 'We are faced in this country with the biggest choice of our generation, a choice which is going to have a huge impact on our jobs, our trade, our investment, our place in the world.

'Frankly, I think, these complaining ministers are lucky. Usually when members of a government go against ministerial collective responsibility and the will of the Cabinet, they receive one paper - and that's their P45.

'So I think they have got off rather lightly and they should stop whinging.'

Lord Mandelson dismissed claims he was adding to 'scaremongering' by the In campaign with his speech as he warned it would be 'thoroughly reckless' to quit the EU.


Britain's Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Iain Duncan Smith (L) and Minister of State for Employment Priti Patel arrive to attend a cabinet meeting at Number 10 Downing Street in London, Britain March 1, 2016. REUTERS/Stefan Wermuth
Iain Duncan Smith has ordered his civil servants to IGNORE a...

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But the Vote Leave said his warnings of steep tariffs made him look like a man carrying a 'the end is nigh' sign in the street.

The new row comes a day after Boris Johnson blasted Mr Cameron's claim he was promoting 'project fact' as 'baloney'.


In his speech, the former EU trade commissioner said: 'In trade you need bargaining chips in order to negotiate benefits in exchange and Britain is already a relatively open economy.

'Losing the EU's preferential trading benefits in foreign markets could mean new tariffs of 10, 20 per cent or sometimes even more on key UK exports, such as cars, machine goods, whisky and textiles.

'We would end up having to sacrifice sensitive positions in order to secure these deals.'

Challenged on the BBC if he was scaremongering, Lord Mandelson rejected the claim.

He said: 'There is no scaremongering in that speech – and I would say substantial speech which addresses the risks and the consequences for British business and British jobs of our leaving the European Union.'