Reply to: The rate of climate change

[seanraaron]

The problem with that is that it makes our own businesses less competitive and drives more production abroad to developing countries where factories are less fuel efficient and even more dependent on coal and other fossil fuels. Look at China. They are understandably more concerned with improving their standard of living. Add in cost of transport and it's possible that green taxes might increase global emissions not reduce them.

Well even the Chinese are finally getting concerned about industrial pollution so I think they'll become interested sooner rather than later; especially given they're keen to stop anything that will lead to mass social unrest.

[pjclarke]

So you haven't read the book, but resort to Ad Hominem?

Did you read the linked reviews? I am not interested in reading what appears to be an error-riddled hatchet job on a study now a quarter century old, and confirmed many times over.

But as you clearly have read the book (I assume), the floor is yours... what is Montford's most compelling argument and evidence for his remarkable accusation of corruption?

I am presuming his book is better-argued than his blog, which is a heap of unsubstantiated innuendo, insinuation and conspiracy theory ...

[scooterscot]

The problem with that is that it makes our own businesses less competitive and drives more production abroad to developing countries where factories are less fuel efficient and even more dependent on coal and other fossil fuels. Look at China. They are understandably more concerned with improving their standard of living. Add in cost of transport and it's possible that green taxes might increase global emissions not reduce them.

I don't disagree. Wave generation has huge potential. Choosing to withdraw investment because of living standards in China makes no sense in my book. We should not look to compete with someone who can run us under the ground. Better to become inventive and look to do it better, not cheaper.

We've chased most of the sharp minds off this island now with high houses prices and low salaries. But that's another story.

[clearedforlanding]

Do you really think climate change of any significance happens over a lifetime of a human even one as worthless as you?

I am glad the Internet has provided you with an opportunity to demonstrate what a muppet you are to a wider audience than the telephone ever could.

[DimPrawn]

Ah, a fan of Andrew Montford the prominent climate scientist accountant. Anyone can write a book. I confess I have not read this tome, but I have read enough of Montford's blog to get a flavour of his tone, which consists of paranoia, bias, hatred and ridicule for all things Green, conspiracy theory and pseudoscience.

And for some reason, a Two Minute Hate against the work and character of Michael Mann, a prominent paleoclimatologist. As Alistair McIntosh wrote in the Scottish Review of Books:

[…]

Reviews

See also The Montford Delusion « RealClimate

See also Review of the Hockey Stick Illusion - Part 1 - Rearranging The Deckchairs

So you haven't read the book, but resort to Ad Hominem?

Says it all...

[pjclarke]

it's all complete bollox.

Ah, a fan of Andrew Montford the prominent climate scientist accountant. Anyone can write a book. I confess I have not read this tome, but I have read enough of Montford's blog to get a flavour of his tone, which consists of paranoia, bias, hatred and ridicule for all things Green, conspiracy theory and pseudoscience.

And for some reason, a Two Minute Hate against the work and character of Michael Mann, a prominent paleoclimatologist. As Alistair McIntosh wrote in the Scottish Review of Books:

His book’s opening paragraph tells*how he learned the intricacies of climate science by reading*Climate Audit*– the*blog of Canadian mining consultant, Steve McIntyre. He relates: “While some of*the statistics was [sic] over my head … I wondered if my newly-found understanding of the debate would enable me to take on … a public duty to make the story more widely known.”

[…]

Montford’s analysis might cut the mustard with tabloid intellectuals but not with most scientists. Credibility counts. Mann has published over a hundred relevant contributions to scholarly journals compared, seemingly, with McIntyre, three, and Montford, nil. Meanwhile, Mann and his colleagues get on with refining their methods and datasets, publishing in such world-renowned journals such as*Nature*and*Science.

http://www.scottishreviewofbooks.org...2010&Itemid=85

See also The Montford Delusion « RealClimate

See also http://frankodwyer.com/blog/2012/02/...lusion-part-1/

[original PM]

The documentary "10 Billion" pretty much said the same thing about the rate of change and how humanity was the cause of the greatest mass extinction on Earth since the dinosaurs. It was a frank and honest programme and the scientist Stephen Emmott did a great job of putting the case across. At one point towards the end of the programme he stops and says "we're f**ked" and it just really hit home hard.... I had to rewind and hear him say that again because I didn't think he had actually sworn!

Watch the trailer at Home - Ten Billion

The reality of it all is probably that we are f**ked. It is too late and there is nothing that greedy, single minded, consumption driven governments and upper-echelons of society are prepared give up to try and make things better.

I am not convinced that me driving my car to work is going to increase the population.

Maybe the increasing population in third World countries which is often funded by 1st world guilt needs to stop?

[darmstadt]

I wonder why every single aspect of climate change is negative?

Surely temperatures going up is positive

[xoggoth]

Why are carbon taxes not increasing so that we're persuaded to make a step change away from fossil fuels

The problem with that is that it makes our own businesses less competitive and drives more production abroad to developing countries where factories are less fuel efficient and even more dependent on coal and other fossil fuels. Look at China. They are understandably more concerned with improving their standard of living. Add in cost of transport and it's possible that green taxes might increase global emissions not reduce them.

[ChimpMaster]

Do you really think climate change of any significance happens over a lifetime of a human even one as worthless as you?

This is vile and unnecessary.

I suppose much like most agents.

[scooterscot]

Do you really think climate change of any significance happens over a lifetime of a human even one as worthless as you?

My worth is as equal to the next person and neither of us are in a position to qualify each other, in my experience.

Future generations will look back at what we did today to stop the events of tomorrow. Only inward looking individuals would consider the merits of change to be an obstacle to be avoided rather than a meaningful pursuit.

Don't you have someones money to take vom those that actually made it?

[DodgyAgent]

Weeks after localised flooding putting many out of a home. Winter, no sign of as I remember as a child. And you come out with drivel like that.

Until you notice the perspective of others no one with see you perception. How the hell are you a consultant?

Do you really think climate change of any significance happens over a lifetime of a human even one as worthless as you?

[scooterscot]

Probably because, unlike a like you, they can see it's all complete bollox.

The Hockey Stick Illusion;Climategate and the Corruption of Science (Independent Minds): Amazon.co.uk: A W Montford: 9781906768355: Books

HTH BIDI

Weeks after localised flooding putting many out of a home. Winter, no sign of as I remember as a child. And you come out with drivel like that.

Until you notice the perspective of others no one with see you perception. How the hell are you a consultant?

[MicrosoftBob]

Probably because, unlike a like you, they can see it's all complete bollox.

The Hockey Stick Illusion;Climategate and the Corruption of Science (Independent Minds): Amazon.co.uk: A W Montford: 9781906768355: Books

HTH BIDI

But if we only pay more green taxes climate change will disappear and the polar bears will be saved

[DimPrawn]

When are we going to act?

Why is the government removing subsidies from solar power and threatening to do the same with wind power? Bonkers.

Why are carbon taxes not increasing so that we're persuaded to make a step change away from fossil fuels? Just Bonkers.

Probably because, unlike a like you, they can see it's all complete bollox.

The Hockey Stick Illusion;Climategate and the Corruption of Science (Independent Minds): Amazon.co.uk: A W Montford: 9781906768355: Books

HTH BIDI