Reply to: The Farce Awakens...

[PurpleGorilla]

Let's just cut all the benefits apart from to the disabled and vulnerable elderly. Food stamps for the destitute. See if they still flock over when you get f all.

[SueEllen]

The benefits vary so wildly. It is not a fair deal for the UK, Sweden etc and a pretty excellent deal for everyone else.

Then it's the UK, Swedish etc governments' fault not the EU.

Even Germany partially falls in this trap which is why a Romanian lady tried it on in the European court of Justice* and lost.

If benefits are universal in a country then all EU citizens that are resident in that country must have them. If there is a residency or contributory requirement then all EU citizens including that country's citizens must fulfill the requirement.

Spain is broke plus is now liable for paying for the social and health care of an increasing amount of elderly British ex-pats.


*This is different from the European Court of Human Rights which we are stuck with whether we are in the EU or not.

[vetran]

Wait, what? I don't get this, are you saying that the Polish Guy working here is claiming child benefit here, whereas the Brit living in Spain is also claiming here and not in the country in which they are living?

yep the Brit family living in France with the Wife popping over here to work here can't claim any child benefits just like the Polish plumber with the wife & kids back in Poland.

[clearedforlanding]

Under EU directive all EU citizens must be treated equally in claiming benefits.

In countries with a contributory or length residency qualification this isn't a problem.

The benefits vary so wildly. It is not a fair deal for the UK, Sweden etc and a pretty excellent deal for everyone else.

For those EU people working as an 'autonomo' (us contractors [for sake of argument I'll pretend I still am one]) in Spain over the past years the deal was not good. Pay full whack income tax & social security benefits for several years and receive your unemployment benefits of €0.

Recently to appease the EU for additional contributions of 14€ the autonomo can claim around 589€ for a limited time, between 2 and 12 months depending on how long the additional contributions have been made. But you cannot claim if you end your business "voluntarily"; the system is new so it is uncertain how voluntary will be defined in this context. Lose your only client? Look for another one.

Then watch your health cover disappear within 6 months.

[SueEllen]

I don't really see why Europe should have a say in the UK benefits system.

Under EU directive all EU citizens must be treated equally in claiming benefits.

In countries with a contributory or length residency qualification this isn't a problem.

However the lying governments of the UK, past and present, refuse to put residency length requirements in the various benefits legislation as they think there will be a backlash.

So it's not the EU telling us what to do it's the politicians who govern us being too thick to think of residency rules that would allow 95% of British citizens qualify but 95% of new EU arrivals not to.

[original PM]

I don't really see why Europe should have a say in the UK benefits system.

In fact if it was used correctly you could incentives the right people at the right time to aid the country.

[OwlHoot]

Next we will have a month of the EU pretending Dave has been tough and playing hard to get then rubber stamping his nothing agreement

and his colleagues pretending to be Euroskeptic before, now claiming that this such a great deal they have changed their mind.

[ZARDOZ]

He hasn't really got a deal has he?
It's a bit like having a substitution clause in a contract.
Almost impossible to implement.

Plus what about out of work benefits? That must cost us more.


Smoke and mirrors from a man who couldn't get a deal at the DFS sale.

Next we will have a month of the EU pretending Dave has been tough and playing hard to get then rubber stamping his nothing agreement

[seanraaron]

Yeah I don't want to be robbed.

But you're already being robbed, goddam bent-banana thieving, Eurocrat, razzle-frazzle?!*#%

[SueEllen]

agree with that, however we need to avoid having those at the bottom starve.

Yeah I don't want to be robbed.

[OwlHoot]

What was it Charles I yelled at Prince Rupert after the latter lost some battle in the English Civil War?

"You promised mountains, yet you delivered mole hills!"

I suspect we'll be hearing that saying more than once in the coming weeks ..

[meridian]

The tax credits ask 'how may children do you have' not 'how may children do you have living permanently in the UK'. The Polish Guy honestly says 2 and gets tax credits meant to support children in the UK whilst his kids are back home in Poland. We just need to change the tax credit form, those brits with kids living in Spain or France etc will have to claim for them in the country the kids are in.

Wait, what? I don't get this, are you saying that the Polish Guy working here is claiming child benefit here, whereas the Brit living in Spain is also claiming here and not in the country in which they are living?

[seanraaron]

agree with that, however we need to avoid having those at the bottom starve.

"Everyone loves the taste of Soylent Pies, proudly made in the UK!"

[vetran]

Things different, I know. But maybe changing the welfare system is the key and put some of that child breeding lazy families to work ?

agree with that, however we need to avoid having those at the bottom starve.

[diseasex]

Don't forget you do have generous system in place. In poland for example, you need to work at least 6 months to be able to claim anything. How would that sound if we were requiring 4 years from foreigners and 6 months from poles?

Things different, I know. But maybe changing the welfare system is the key and put some of that child breeding lazy families to work ?