Reply to: Labour isn't working

[Hart-floot]

A few decades later Tony Benn reflects (as he does) on Tony Blair's New Labour being more right wing than Ted Heath's Tory Gov't.

Probably apt today - New Labour appear to be more 'right' wing on most issues than Cameron's Tories? They're even more pro Bush than Cameron!

[BobTheCrate]

10 years before the miners strike the miners actually brought down the government [Ted Heath] - that is how powerful they were!

The fascinating thing about that was the then NUM leader, Joe Gormley, was considered a moderate even by many a Tory.

A few decades later Tony Benn reflects (as he does) on Tony Blair's New Labour being more right wing than Ted Heath's Tory Gov't.

[xoggoth]

What an old fart you must be Z! Glad I'm still 32, never heard of Calaghan, before my time.

[hattra]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Another figure you could use to promote NL would be the employment figures - we now have more people in work than at any other time since figures began.

Don't want to promote NL as a roaring success by any means, but it's all relative - cherry pickking a few stats doesn't make them suddenly the worst or best.

And BTW Some of us still remember the dark days under major, i.e. 3 1/2 mill unemployed, interest rates up in double figures and inflation almost near 10% - to say NL inherited a good eceonomy is ignoring the fact that the tories created those issues also - from my undertsanding politicians have a lot less influence on economics than we imagine.

I'm still tempted to vote for DC but not on the basis of a few choice stats.

Actually the Tories under Thatcher and Major managed the same trick - despite having 3 million unemployed, they also managed to end up with about 3 million more in work at the end of their government than at the beginning.

They also inherited inflation at somewhere between 21% & 24% - interest rates at 16%, and an economy that was flat broke and had been put on "special measures" by the IMF (and a top rate of income tax of 98% - which is why all the real money went elsewhere).

And the first thing NL did when it came to power was say that it was sticking to the Tory spending plans for at least the first two years of their term.

IIRC, it was only after the two years was up that Gordo started to loose his grip

[Forumbore]

Left wing ideology has never stimulated any economy. All it does is feed off (as parasites do) free market economies that have sprung out of counjtries that have cleared govts out of the way.

[zathras]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Another figure you could use to promote NL would be the employment figures - we now have more people in work than at any other time since figures began.

Don't want to promote NL as a roaring success by any means, but it's all relative - cherry pickking a few stats doesn't make them suddenly the worst or best.

And BTW Some of us still remember the dark days under major, i.e. 3 1/2 mill unemployed, interest rates up in double figures and inflation almost near 10% - to say NL inherited a good eceonomy is ignoring the fact that the tories created those issues also - from my undertsanding politicians have a lot less influence on economics than we imagine.

I'm still tempted to vote for DC but not on the basis of a few choice stats.

Unemployment was no way 3million when John Major was in power than it dropped by 2million when New Labour came to power!

Further to make a comment like that you must be fairly young and therefore unable to remember the last Labour Government - the one lead by a certain Callaghan and kept in power by a coalition with the Liberals. The increase in unemployment was caused by correcting the failings in our own manufacturing industries. That themselves was down to over regulation (something the current New Labour government is repeating). It was also down to the power of the Unions. 10 years before the miners strike the miners actually brought down the government - that is how powerful they were!

When the Tories lost power they had already corrected those anomolies - to the point the Japanese actually described their Sunderland plant as one of the most productive! Further the reason Gordon Brown has had a good run is purely down to the work of the preceeding two Tory Chancellor's!

Interest rates were high but then they were all over the world. Further the highest interest rates came out of the failure of the ERM which was artificially kept up by the Central Banks propping up currencies with higher interest rates.

You can hardly complain about the last Tory administrations, until you are position to remember the last Labour administration - so bad that the IMF had to step in to bail it out!

Since New Labour came to power our pensions have been wiped out, inward investment has been going down, any reduction has been down to the growth in Public sector jobs which has been magnitudes more than in the Private Sector - jobs lost over the same period in the private sector far outstrip those created and had there not been the growth in public sector ones unemployment would have been going up far longer.

It's worth noting that the current run of increased unemployment is longer than that during the 1992 recession.

[hugebrain]

[QUOTE=Mordac]Tu me prends pour quelqu'un qui en a quelque chose à foutre. QUOTE]

The fish says:

"You take to me for somebody who has something with foutre of it."

What's foutre, some sort of naughty word?

[wendigo100]

No, they didn't just support it: both liebour and the Lib Dems were fecking calling for Lamont's head for not joining the ERM sooner!

And they still both want to join the Euro!

[hyperD]

...John major took the Uk into the ERM which severly damaged the economy but labour fully supported the policy...

No, they didn't just support it: both liebour and the Lib Dems were fecking calling for Lamont's head for not joining the ERM sooner!

[Forumbore]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Another figure you could use to promote NL would be the employment figures - we now have more people in work than at any other time since figures began.

Don't want to promote NL as a roaring success by any means, but it's all relative - cherry pickking a few stats doesn't make them suddenly the worst or best.

And BTW Some of us still remember the dark days under major, i.e. 3 1/2 mill unemployed, interest rates up in double figures and inflation almost near 10% - to say NL inherited a good eceonomy is ignoring the fact that the tories created those issues also - from my undertsanding politicians have a lot less influence on economics than we imagine.

I'm still tempted to vote for DC but not on the basis of a few choice stats.

We have nearly 4 million unemployed (including IBers). People in work may be at a record high but many of those are govt created nothing jobs, & Eastern Europeans. John major took the Uk into the ERM which severly damaged the economy but labour fully supported the policy.

It seems to be you as much as anyone who is "cherry picking" and spinning facts. Whoever is in power 4 million unemployed is a disgrace, especially when huge numbers of immigrants are finding jobs.

[Hart-floot]

".

I bet however that the number of Eastern Europeans employed here has gone up.

Probably the reason why the unemployment rate is rising at the same time as the numbers employed is increasing. After all we have a booming economy according to Gordon Brown

Another dodgy NL statistic is the current inflation rate. BBC last night showed figures for the governments preferred measurement of 2.6%, the old RPI which shows 3.6% and the inflation rate on goods & services for pensioners at 5.7%
Not sure what rate affects the average contractor household but you can bet its not the 2.6% one. Probable cert that interests are on the up

[NoddY]

We need more immigration,

Gordo

[snaw]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Another figure you could use to promote NL would be the employment figures - we now have more people in work than at any other time since figures began.

Don't want to promote NL as a roaring success by any means, but it's all relative - cherry pickking a few stats doesn't make them suddenly the worst or best.

And BTW Some of us still remember the dark days under major, i.e. 3 1/2 mill unemployed, interest rates up in double figures and inflation almost near 10% - to say NL inherited a good eceonomy is ignoring the fact that the tories created those issues also - from my undertsanding politicians have a lot less influence on economics than we imagine.

I'm still tempted to vote for DC but not on the basis of a few choice stats.

[Mordac]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6061768.stm

UK unemployment has risen to its highest level in six years, hitting 1.7 million in the three months to August.

The rise of 42,000 took the jobless rate to 5.5%, a rise of 0.1% on the previous quarter, the Office for National Statistics said.

The number of people claiming Jobseekers Allowance reached 962,000 in September, an increase of 10,200.

Oh Dear. Luckily house price rises continue. We are all saved.

Toady this morning reported that an interest rate rise next month was "now a certainty".

Dooooooooomed.

[Forumbore]

also it is worth noting that unemployment had been on the decline since 1993 - well before this shower got in, and that the economy had turned the corner. Unfortunaly for the Tories at that time they came up against a NL spin machine the like of which had not been seen before.

the decline is greatly due to the redefining of unemployment into "disability".

I bet however that the number of Eastern Europeans employed here has gone up.