Reply to: Three month advanced warning.

[LondonManc]

I think part of it is understanding the industry that you're in. If they consistently operate a "can you start on Monday" approach, then why put yourself in the situation in the first place? You're putting your limited company's reputation at risk.

[northernladuk]

Then come last week depending on which one, contractor gets canned at last minute, or not.

Jesus.. He doesn't get canned. He leaves at the end of the agreed term and the contract expires as was agreed right at the beginning. He should have completed a handover and wound down at this point until told otherwise.

[psychocandy]

Cause it's not very human being? :

This is the same old argument so not worth going over but looking for gigs too early meaning you have to ditch them 2 weeks before contract end is as tight as it gets IMO. Just last the 2 weeks out and do it properly. If you can't organise flexibility then stay. Leaving mid gig maybe. A few weeks before the end to stick it to the client just because he told you early you won't get a renewal is just mehhhhhh

Hardly surprising clients treat us badly at the end of gigs. What goes around comes around.

But please PC. If you are going to say hell yeah to giving notice please don't moan about clients treating you harshly when they are working to contract. Makes you look a bit ridiculous.

Anyway, as I say that my opinion and other have theirs and nothing will change.

OK. To clarify - a month before end client says sorry no renewal. So you get a gig but want to leave two weeks early. You're on a week notice so you speak to the client. Not sure how many clients in this situation would say not happy with that you've got to stay.

If so, then you've got a decision. Speak to new client and try and put it back. If not then yes you MAY have to tell current client Im sorry. BUT you tried to be nice about it but that can only go far.

Of course, if you have no notice period then its a bit more to think about just not turning up.

Completely different is the following:-
1. Client knows there is no renewal on the table or just plain cant be bothered to try and sort it out until the last minute. Tells contractor nothing. Then come last week depending on which one, contractor gets canned at last minute, or not.

Yes contractually its all ok but if I've been a client for while/got good relationship its nice to think they'd consider me a bit too. Like I said, current client does this others in the past have not.

2. Works same way for contractor. If they know they are not planning to accept extension in next 3-4 weeks then its only fair to let client know. After all, after a few extensions clients do sometimes assume things.

Again contractually, you dont have to do this. You could keep your head down and hope no-one notices and jsut not turn up one day. But I think thats bad form if you've been at client for a while.

[northernladuk]

Two situations:-

1. If contractual notice period allows then hell why not?

Cause it's not very human being? :

This is the same old argument so not worth going over but looking for gigs too early meaning you have to ditch them 2 weeks before contract end is as tight as it gets IMO. Just last the 2 weeks out and do it properly. If you can't organise flexibility then stay. Leaving mid gig maybe. A few weeks before the end to stick it to the client just because he told you early you won't get a renewal is just mehhhhhh

Hardly surprising clients treat us badly at the end of gigs. What goes around comes around.

But please PC. If you are going to say hell yeah to giving notice please don't moan about clients treating you harshly when they are working to contract. Makes you look a bit ridiculous.

Anyway, as I say that my opinion and other have theirs and nothing will change.

[psychocandy]

No. It was aimed at those that are made aware there won't be a renewal when the contract ends in a month. They hit the job boards, get a gig early and attempt to leave the current client two weeks before contract end.

Two situations:-

1. If contractual notice period allows then hell why not?

2. If not, try and talk current client into letting you go early.

If none of these applies, then you have a big decision to make. Wonder how many people in reality would knock back a great gig, do the last two weeks. Wonder if you'd feel differently if you then spend months on the bench?

[northernladuk]

The only circumstance in which I see that to be of business sense is if your involvement is coming to a logical conclusion and you can use the whole don't want to fall foul of D&C rules and no point paying me for just sitting there schmaltz to make it look like you're doing them a favour by leaving early.

In some circumstances yes, others no. Problem is the type of contractor I'm thinking off doesn't care. Remember that thread recently about the guy trying to leave early and the client didn't want him to.

[LondonManc]

No. It was aimed at those that are made aware there won't be a renewal when the contract ends in a month. They hit the job boards, get a gig early and attempt to leave the current client two weeks before contract end.

The only circumstance in which I see that to be of business sense is if your involvement is coming to a logical conclusion and you can use the whole don't want to fall foul of D&C rules and no point paying me for just sitting there schmaltz to make it look like you're doing them a favour by leaving early.

[northernladuk]

nluk - are you suggesting that a contractor is somehow obligated to accept a renewal if the client so deems at the last minute if the project is not finished?

No. It was aimed at those that are made aware there won't be a renewal when the contract ends in a month. They hit the job boards, get a gig early and attempt to leave the current client two weeks before contract end.

[psychocandy]

Thats interesting. Aren't you one of the biggest advocates of using your notice period as you see fit and f##k the client. Look after number one and all that. How very 'human being' of you.

Maybe it's because some contractors have this attitude the clients doesn't feel the need to do what suits the contractor all the time.

No I'm of the opinion that a client can't moan too much if a notice period that they agreed to in invoked. However, I will be fair to clients who are fair to me. If, for example, I knew full well I had no intention of accepting a renewal I would let them know as soon as.

If I ever gave notice, then fair enough, its going to possibly cause hassle for client. But then I'd be happy to do my best to lessen the impact.

But at end of day, both contractor and client look after no 1. I just think theres also some scope within this for both parties to play nice too. i.e. contractors not bailing on last day after verbally accepting renewal, and clients sorting out renewals in advance and then moaning when contractor leaves.

[LondonManc]

Your contract lasts as long as your perceived value to client co is sufficient not to cut you loose.

[northernladuk]

I just think sometimes clients can make more of an effort to act like human beings. Imagine if I'd verbally said yes I'll extend, waited for paperwok, then day before said "nah changed my mind". Perfectly legal etc but just not nice to do to someone - especially someone you've known for a while and built up business relationship with.

Thats interesting. Aren't you one of the biggest advocates of using your notice period as you see fit and f##k the client. Look after number one and all that. How very 'human being' of you.

Maybe it's because some contractors have this attitude the clients doesn't feel the need to do what suits the contractor all the time.

[psychocandy]

Gotta remember also there are plenty of contractors around that believe 'there won't be a renewal' means 'get another gig asap and leave your client in the lurch'. Keep them hanging on and they might actually see the gig through.

nluk - are you suggesting that a contractor is somehow obligated to accept a renewal if the client so deems at the last minute if the project is not finished?

[psychocandy]

It's not harsh at all. You knew exactly what date the gig was going to end the as soon as you signed the contract. Anything else is a bonus. If Bolshie was around he'd point out this is what happens when you've been at a client for a long period. You start expecting renewals (which could be a MoO issue no?) and blaming the client when you don't get one.

Start making noises a week or two before the end about handover, cancel meetings past your leaving date and start handing over. The client will either let you carry on or stop you. There is your answer.

Of course, its a bonus but I've seen the difference at other clients. Current one is good as gold - is honest, lets me know in advance etc.

The one I mentioned had me on project plan for months ahead. I kept hassling and they kept saying no problem its being sorted then like I said day before it got canned.

I just think sometimes clients can make more of an effort to act like human beings. Imagine if I'd verbally said yes I'll extend, waited for paperwok, then day before said "nah changed my mind". Perfectly legal etc but just not nice to do to someone - especially someone you've known for a while and built up business relationship with.

[ChimpMaster]

Mine told me 7 months, ago, bu,t that is completely unusual, in my experience.

When I started my current contract, the IT director told me it definitely would not last longer than 6 years (really).

I am doing my best to prove him wrong. Having said that, I have outlasted him at this client.

[MrMarkyMark]

Gotta remember also there are plenty of contractors around that believe 'there won't be a renewal' means 'get another gig asap and leave your client in the lurch'. Keep them hanging on and they might actually see the gig through.

Mine told me 7 months, ago, bu,t that is completely unusual, in my experience.