Reply to: Implications of walking out

[cojak]

There's a lesson here peeps.

First of all - good for you premier for getting your money out of Regressive - they really do have a track record for this kind of thing.

Now the second point is this - you allowed them to do this to you (think Pavlov's dogs..)

Let's go through your orginal post again...

From the moment I was offered the job, I was hassled immediately by the agent to sign and fax back an e-mailed contract. I did sign and return on the day of offer. Pimp: "Hmm - this one seems a bit bendy...")

Started the job...no hard copy contract came through the post...yes I have in my possession, the e-mailed copy, but it has no signature by a representative of the agent on it. (Pimp: "Let's see if he's a real mug and start the job without a real contract")

Anyway, to cut a long story short. The agency do 'electronic timesheets' and the end client has to 'electronically authorise timesheets'. (Pimp: "Yes he is! He probably won't do much more than call if I hold his payments...")

The agent has still (after repeated calls and emails from me) failed to provide me with any details on

A. How to do this
B. Provide myself or the end client Portal Login Details

Therefore I have not been paid since I have been here and am now considering walking. I have told the agent this and ever since, they are now ducking my calls. (P:"He hasn't walked from the site yet - the client hasn't called. I wonder how long I can push this? My bonus is nearly due....")

I took the unusual path of speaking to the end client (who is well happy with my work) to see if they could do anything to 'push' agency along. (P:zzzzz...)

Their reply was 'sorry, but it's between your business and the agency and we cannot become involved'

Do I walk and risk losing all the money I have earned thus far? What are the implications of walking (legally)

My contract states that the agency will pay within 14 days of invoice /authorised timesheet being received, but I cannot fill in an electronic timesheet...cos I have no login details!!!

The agency have thus far also refused a paper timesheet (P:Just tell 'im 'no' - what's he gonna do?) (I could knock one up) and also refuse to accept hard copy invoices (apparantly these are raised automatically at the same time as the timesheet is created on thier system)

(P: )

See? By bending over at the first sign of a problem you taught him that he could treat you like dirt and you wouldn't do anything about it.

Treat agents professionally (see the contract before you start the job helps) and don't let them get away with little 'slips' at the beginning of the contract if you don't want big ones at the end.

HTH

[tim123]

I got paid as well. less than half your bill (It was only 2 and a half weeks work).

Invoicing again today, let's see if they get that right

tim

[AtW]

Dosh in company account on Tuesday.

An invoice for £9,995 for CUK forum consulting services is in the post.

Please pay promptly as you now know how agitated people are by not being paid on time.

hth

[Ardesco]

A happy ending for a Friday

[premiere]

After a tremendous amount of head bashing yesterday, both here at the end client and with Regressive, finally got the client to sort PO number.

Agent now has it...

Turns out end client won't do 'regressive's on line authorisation tulipe'...so printed good old fashioned paper ones.

Got all 5 weeks timesheets signed off yesterday evening, and faxed to Regressive along with a hefty invoice for 10K

Got Regressive to include (due to threatening to walk if not paid asap) me in today's BACS run.

Dosh in company account on Tuesday.

Thank feck for that!

[Ardesco]

Forget threaten, think of it as an opportunity to go direct and do all you can to achieve your aim!!!

[vetran]

They haven't paid

To make a contract you have to have willingness to provide a service or goods and payment of money.

half of that is missing. Try threatening to go direct.

IANAL etc

[zathras]

wan't given a choice in the sense that the contract was marked as 'opt out'

Told Progressive that I wanted 'opt in'...but they started moaning... and I was so keen on the job, working on designing the new 'on demand' infrastructure for ITV that I just accepted the opt out.

foolish eh?

If you are a PCG member send me a private through the PCG forums and I will see what I can do for you. No promises however.

[zathras]

Bit of a daft one here, but I have never had to consider walking before.

Started a new contract some weeks ago (5) ...

From the moment I was offered the job, I was hassled immediately by the agent to sign and fax back an e-mailed contract. I did sign and return on the day of offer.

Started the job...no hard copy contract came through the post...yes I have in my possession, the e-mailed copy, but it has no signature by a representative of the agent on it.

Anyway, to cut a long story short. The agency do 'electronic timesheets' and the end client has to 'electronically authorise timesheets'.

The agent has still (after repeated calls and emails from me) failed to provide me with any details on

A. How to do this
B. Provide myself or the end client Portal Login Details

Therefore I have not been paid since I have been here and am now considering walking. I have told the agent this and ever since, they are now ducking my calls.

I took the unusual path of speaking to the end client (who is well happy with my work) to see if they could do anything to 'push' agency along.

Their reply was 'sorry, but it's between your business and the agency and we cannot become involved'

Do I walk and risk losing all the money I have earned thus far? What are the implications of walking (legally)

My contract states that the agency will pay within 14 days of invoice /authorised timesheet being received, but I cannot fill in an electronic timesheet...cos I have no login details!!!

The agency have thus far also refused a paper timesheet (I could knock one up) and also refuse to accept hard copy invoices (apparantly these are raised automatically at the same time as the timesheet is created on thier system)

Wots to do?

First question is did you opt out of the Agency Regulations. It you did not opt out then you are opted in and such a term is unenforceable. In otherwords tough they have to pay you.

I'm tempted to suggest that you give them a hard copy timesheet quoting there failure to provide you with the login for the portal.

Then give them 7 days to pay the invoice and if they fail start adding interest under the late payment of commercial debts act. Then tell them that you will be walking. There is little point in looking after the agent. If they are not paying, why worry about subsequent work.

Also keep the end client in the loop and tell them that unfortunatly you will be unable to continue to provide services to them due to the agents failure to pay.

[Ardesco]

If you have advised them in writing that you wish to opt-in you are now opted in and there is nothing they can do about it, you can opt-in at any point you want, you can only opt-out before you have met/been interviewed by the client.

Another option is to talk to the company you are working with about going direct. Tell them that agency is not paying you and not honouring your contract so you are going to walk out, but if they would like you can switch to a direct contract with them for £515 per day (Agency will be getting £560/day absolute minimum anyway and more like £600/day in reality). If the business is happy they may well take you on board as they are saving money and know what your standard of work is like and as the agency have not been paying you there is very little they can do about it (no signed contracts anywhere means no clauses!!)

[interested]

Strangely enough, my agent is given me exactly the same run around.

Differences are:
It's not an S3 anency,
They don't use electronic timesheets/self-billing.
The client is interested in giving them a kick.

But I still have no contract after 5 weeks.

I invoiced them for the first 2 weeks work to end Sept.
They didn't pay. They say that they have sorted the problem and are paying today, we will see.

tim

Again, I'd say find someone at the client who will give the agency a kicking - procurement manager is normally the right person, although HR often have the day to day relationship.

[tim123]

Strangely enough, my agent is given me exactly the same run around.

Differences are:
It's not an S3 anency,
They don't use electronic timesheets/self-billing.
The client is interested in giving them a kick.

But I still have no contract after 5 weeks.

I invoiced them for the first 2 weeks work to end Sept.
They didn't pay. They say that they have sorted the problem and are paying today, we will see.

tim

[AtW]

Good to hear Paddy that you had your day in court - I bet you were very pleased with getting justice in it: the agent maybe did not learn a lesson, but at least he had the humiliation of losing in court.

[Paddy]

Have you opted in or out of the employment regulations. If opted in then surely timesheet does not have to be signed to get paid.

On one of my cases suing an agent for late payment, his defence was that he had not received a timesheet. The Judge said that was irrelevant. In the Judges own words “If he did the work, you must pay him. If he invoiced you and the work was done it is totally irrelevant if you have a time sheet or not”

[AtW]

(although I reckon you could sue them for the cash owed regradless of whether the agency gets screwed).

100% - unless they go bust and can't pay at all.