Reply to: Scottish independance

[tomtomagain]

No debate, no nothing, caught doing wrong and you'll be exported.

Will be interesting to see if they do deport them or whether the European convention on Human Rights is used to block the deportation as is often cited in UK cases.

Now there's a solid argument for remaining in the EU.

Quite ( and we finally agree on something ). I am a firm believer that the UK should remain in the EU but that the EU needs reform.

[scooterscot]

Funnily enough I was talking to a good friend in Germany last night and that was his view too. He and his neighbours feel that Germany is being overrun by migrants. I was surprised at how hostile they have become in such a short space of time. I had thought the German public's tolerance would last for 2 - 3 more years.

They are those refugees escaping plight we cannot imagine. The are migrants taking the opportunity, North africans in particular, who are by in large responsible for the recent violence. I don't understand why stronger vetting was not applied. That being said the German are not wasting time turning the situation around. No debate, no nothing, caught doing wrong and you'll be exported.

But that is all the more reason to stay united and not to fragment.

Now there's a solid argument for remaining in the EU.

Democracy is "noisy". Scandals erupt and change happens.

It's also a work in progress. I favour more decentralisation.

Me too. Do you think that iScotland would adopt a more left-wing or more right-wing economic policy?

I'd hope left. When I return to Scotland (3 times a year at the minute) I see development, costs rising everywhere - there's a general feeling of 'getting on with it'.

I don't see left or right as being as important as change. The country needs to be less dependent on others (as we're accused) and demonstrate independence. Slowly but surely this is what I see happening.

[tomtomagain]

Security? The UK is overrun with illegal immigrants daily. What is this if not an invasion?

Funnily enough I was talking to a good friend in Germany last night and that was his view too. He and his neighbours feel that Germany is being overrun by migrants. I was surprised at how hostile they have become in such a short space of time. I had thought the German public's tolerance would last for 2 - 3 more years.

The UK hasn't been invaded for hundreds of years and the security of the state is fairly solid. Obviously there is a huge amount of turmoil in the world today causing a crisis the like of which Europe hasn't had to face in 60 years.

But that is all the more reason to stay united and not to fragment.

Freedom of Speech? - The UK is amongst the most recognised in the world where FoS is tolerated.

I think you'll find FoS is more than tolerated. That is why the BBC World Service is seen as a beacon of truth throughout the world.

Democracy - The house Lords? WTF? No vote against illegal war. WTF? Our democracy has been tainted over the years by those who abuse it. Public trust of MP's is at an all time low.

But democracy is a far deeper thing than just the Lords and the House of Commons. Democracy is baked into the UK from the parish councils up to the regional parliaments and assemblies of Scotland and Wales. It's present in your local PTA, sports club and allotment society.

Trust in MP's is low following the expenses scandal. But take a look back at the outcome of that. A whole load of MP's who were caught in the scandal were ejected from parliament by the UK voters. About 2 dozen actually went to jail and these guys were jailed for fiddling very small sums when compared to the literally millions being expropriated by politicians in other countries. And the expenses system was reformed.

Democracy is "noisy". Scandals erupt and change happens.

It's also a work in progress. I favour more decentralisation.

Market-based economy - I'd prefer a capitalist one where if you fail you fail.

[/QUOTE]

Me too. Do you think that iScotland would adopt a more left-wing or more right-wing economic policy?

[scooterscot]

What is an independent country? For me it's a place with the following:

Security, Rule of Law, Freedom of Speech, Democracy & a market-based economy. .

Security? The UK is overrun with illegal immigrants daily. What is this if not an invasion?

Freedom of Speech? - The UK is amongst the most recognised in the world where FoS is tolerated.

Democracy - The house Lords? WTF? No vote against illegal war. WTF? Our democracy has been tainted over the years by those who abuse it. Public trust of MP's is at an all time low.

Market-based economy - I'd prefer a capitalist one where if you fail you fail.

[tomtomagain]

Plenty of small countries manage it. Why can't ours?

Of course Scotland could manage being an independent country. For me that's not the issue.

There are loads of small countries but simply being a viable country is a very low measure of success.

What is an independent country? For me it's a place with the following:

Security, Rule of Law, Freedom of Speech, Democracy & a market-based economy. Everything else is just policy detail - which comes and goes with political fads and trends.

Scotland has all of those as part of the UK. Separation does not give anything extra to the Scottish people but what it does do is put a massive wedge between Scotland and it's main trading partners.

[PlummerParsons]

I'm sure the Scots could make a go of it

...it would be a shame to see them go....they have to give the £ back though.

With Cameron's proposed EU reforms I wonder what impact that would have on anyone wanting to work in England.

[scooterscot]

Assuming that you mean bloated, how the hell do you expected to cut public services with a continuity of left-wing governments led by either Labour or SNP?

Yes, typo.

Plenty of small countries manage it. Why can't ours?

Simplification of the entire system would be a good place to start, partially with the tax system.

I don't SNP is as left wing as you might like to think. The recent change to stamp duty have left many out of favour. Although that tends to be those with high value homes. Fair enough. And I say that as an owner of such a home.

[LondonManc]

Of course Scotland would be fine on it's own. If it's not scare mongering it's love bombing. Make up your mind. Scotland has a blotted public sector that needs culled. It's no business being the size that it is for such a small sexy country. To maintain it would sink it.

I've lived in many small countries, I know how they work. Scotland needs change and the Scottish government are well placed to deliver that. Scotland is rich in resources both natural and people. Listening to people like you would have us believe we're some gelatinous orb on life support.

No government has changed Scotland for the better than the SNP. Political interest has shot through the roof people are interested again rather than just complaining like others. Sure there might be some pain at the start but change would come. And changing what we have is a must.

Assuming that you mean bloated, how the hell do you expected to cut public services with a continuity of left-wing governments led by either Labour or SNP?

[scooterscot]

Compared to the rest of the world, Scotland IS wealthy. But they could risk having to give up on a lot of their ideals in terms of welfare, etc, to be sustainable.

Of course Scots might rather have a bit less in their pocket as a price to pay for independence. It's a valid option.

No argument there. A realisation that I hope people discover. And would probably tackle the poverty problem at the same time.

[MrMarkyMark]

If it's not scare mongering it's love bombing. Make up your mind.

I have made up my own mind.
As I said, I believe, there are other agendas at play, there are always vested interests, as far as politicians are concerned.
However, the points about "trimming the fat" are very valid and I take those on board.

I think what you maybe mean to say is Scotland can't continue to function at its current level of wealth and luxury on its own, without significant reinvention?

Exactly this.

Of course Scots might rather have a bit less in their pocket as a price to pay for independence. It's a valid option.

I don't think they really get this part, that's one of my points.

[d000hg]

Compared to the rest of the world, Scotland IS wealthy. But they could risk having to give up on a lot of their ideals in terms of welfare, etc, to be sustainable.

Of course Scots might rather have a bit less in their pocket as a price to pay for independence. It's a valid option.

[scooterscot]

I think that's a daft thing to say. There are plenty of small countries who manage to plod along. I think what you maybe mean to say is Scotland can't continue to function at its current level of wealth and luxury on its own, without significant reinvention?

Which is kind of the point I'm trying to make above. I'm not certain I would not describe the 'current Scotland' as a land of wealth & luxury. Far from it. It upsets me to see the current levels of poverty at home when the state continues to send wods of aid abroad.

[d000hg]

I'll say it again, the Scots would have no chance swimming on their own.
It just wouldn't work.

I think that's a daft thing to say. There are plenty of small countries who manage to plod along. I think what you maybe mean to say is Scotland can't continue to function at its current level of wealth and luxury on its own, without significant reinvention?

[scooterscot]

The, corrupt, financial center that helps finance Scotland?

I'll say it again, the Scots would have no chance swimming on their own.
It just wouldn't work.
The people are being led to it by a group of people, with vested interests, who are likely to benefit, greatly, personally, if it did become independent.

Of course Scotland would be fine on it's own. If it's not scare mongering it's love bombing. Make up your mind. Scotland has a blotted public sector that needs culled. It's no business being the size that it is for such a small sexy country. To maintain it would sink it.

I've lived in many small countries, I know how they work. Scotland needs change and the Scottish government are well placed to deliver that. Scotland is rich in resources both natural and people. Listening to people like you would have us believe we're some gelatinous orb on life support.

No government has changed Scotland for the better than the SNP. Political interest has shot through the roof people are interested again rather than just complaining like others. Sure there might be some pain at the start but change would come. And changing what we have is a must.

[MrMarkyMark]

Finance capital of the world with other people's money. Great.

The, corrupt, financial center that helps finance Scotland?

I'll say it again, the Scots would have no chance swimming on their own.
It just wouldn't work.
The people are being led to it by a group of people, with vested interests, who are likely to benefit, greatly, personally, if it did become independent.