Reply to: Care homes fees justified ?

[original PM]

You have to start transferring the old dears assets to other family members when they get to about 60 ish.

Generally if they have enough to live on from the pension just let them have that.

My gran was paying my dad's sister nominal rent for the past about 20 years so when she went to a care home and the house was sold the money was put into funds for other family members.

Obviously you have to have a decent intelligent family.

[mudskipper]

My mum has done some sort of legal thing which 'hides' her assets from the self-funding regulations... she was concerned that all "my inheritance" would be drained away should she decide she needs to enter such a place.

Some sort of trust IIRC, the details escape me though.

FIL looked into this - we all decided it was too dodgy.

To the OP - we were looking at care homes for my mum at the beginning of the year - no dementia, but tendency to be a bit confused. Generally not needing nursing care. It was about £1100pw IIRC. We did visit their 'dementia unit' too - it was very nice, and there was a very high staff to inmate ratio, but I don't want to think about how much it cost! It was a Sunrise home, which might be higher end of scale.

[BrilloPad]

He had worked all his life and paid taxes plus saved carefully and at the end he might as well have not bothered.

There is no point in saving. In fact it is best to borrow as much as possible - get as many BTLs as you can.

It is a very different world from when I was young. I still remember borrowing being called the "never never". Now it requires everyone to spend to keep the economy afloat. There was a bit of an economic lull recently so the government has unlocked access to pensions. So it can to spent. Which I suppose is better than having it go towards nursing home fees.

[BigRed]

Not washing hands, we would of looked after her if we could, she lived with my mother circa 300miles away from me, but mother herself is old and was not physically able to care for my nan, hence home last resort.

Sorry, it wasn't meant as a comment on your circumstances, rather the options you end up with. My father ended up in a nursing home and his savings disappeared at an alarming rate for care that was no different to what an Uncle received who had never saved a penny. I didn't care about the money (which was destined for me) but he did. He had worked all his life and paid taxes plus saved carefully and at the end he might as well have not bothered. Not many can save enough to support 3 years in a nursing home.

[OwlHoot]

There are no old people in Scotland. They just look it.

Chortle!

My old folks are the same age as HMQ and DofE, and thank God still sprightly and marbled-up enough to look after themselves with no trouble.

Actually, my father who is 92 still drives them both hundreds of miles, although he has trouble seeing in the dark so they try and drive during the day.

[d000hg]

There must be some other major costs - profits are surely substantial though.

[DimPrawn]

Now my mum's dementia is well-established I don't visit as much. I just ring her saying "I'm home. Lovely seeing you earlier".

No wonder she's ******* confused......

[I just need to test it]

I didn't know it was free in Scotland, in UK once you are down to last 16k ish the council funding kicks in if family can't top up fees then you have to find a home were the council funding will cover it and that in my nans case is around 1.5hr drive a way, not ideal if you want to visit everyday.

Now my mum's dementia is well-established I don't visit as much. I just ring her saying "I'm home. Lovely seeing you earlier".

[vetran]

WTF you are comparing annual salary of the staff to monthly payment by patients.

no one else spotted it Teach me to be too subtle.

yes the staff costs are 1.5 - 2 months so what do they spend the rest on if they are so hard up?

[Andy2]

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/...237/003860.pdf

Extended Care / Nursing Home Hospital Setting Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale United Kingdom

so costs are say 11 employees to cover 2 positions = £220k. 36 patients * £5k = £180k they may have a point. You may be able to use cheaper staff to supplant the nurses and have a nurse on call.

WTF you are comparing annual salary of the staff to monthly payment by patients.

[d000hg]

That's why you should use a trustworthy financial advisor to help you decide if it's a good idea or not. Interesting, thanks for sharing.

That article (for anyone too lazy to read it) makes vague warnings and urges caution which is sound advice with any substantial financial decision

Anyway, in mum's case if this isn't valid it just puts us back where we were minus the fees. More than likely she'd pass on the house in early inheritance in that case.

[vetran]

Warning over care home 'trust' schemes that promise to protect your property - Telegraph

Oh Dear

[vetran]

What we know about current staffing levels
– care homes and community
In care homes there is an average ratio of 18 patients
per registered nurse during the day, and 26 patients per
RN at night.

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/...237/003860.pdf

Extended Care / Nursing Home Hospital Setting Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale United Kingdom

so costs are say 11 employees to cover 2 positions = £220k. 36 patients * £5k = £180k they may have a point. You may be able to use cheaper staff to supplant the nurses and have a nurse on call.

[d000hg]

I didn't know it was free in Scotland, in UK once you are down to last 16k ish the council funding kicks in if family can't top up fees then you have to find a home were the council funding will cover it and that in my nans case is around 1.5hr drive a way, not ideal if you want to visit everyday.

On the plus side, you can't visit every day

Didn't know about that hiding asset trust thing I will look into that as though too late my nan its probably not to late for my mum who looks to be going the same way.

I found the email... I think she actually has two things set up:

1)A Will Trust into which the estate she inherited when my father died is placed - i.e. 1/2 what they jointly owned

2)A Family Protection Trust

Hopefully that might be useful for googling, etc. In some way it means she still owns/has full use of her assets, but they technically are held in trust for myself (I think).

[JRCT]

Especially when the English are paying for Scottish old people to get free old folks homes too.

There are no old people in Scotland. They just look it.