Reply to: Contractor Dies on the Bench

[centurian]

Not cynical.

Even if they have the paperwork which states in bold large print she doesn't get a payout if she dies and isn't working, the bad publicity will make them pay out.

WSS - and I think there's a big element of that occurring in this case. The husband is trying to shame the NHS into paying up.

[nomadd]

Dr Helen Sanderson ... passed away on Christmas Eve after taking the day off.

If she had gone into work, she would have seen doctor.

Death - ironic until the very end.

[SueEllen]

AIUI she paid a fixed amount in for each day she worked. This is why I'm suggesting they should either remove death in service for locums/ charge a monthly fee / tattoo it on a locums forehead they aren't covered. I suspect they do none of these and will end up paying. Call me a cynic.

Not cynical.

Even if they have the paperwork which states in bold large print she doesn't get a payout if she dies and isn't working, the bad publicity will make them pay out.

[vetran]

Maybe, for all we know the 'pension fund' payments may have been based on the number of days she worked, i.e. she only paid for days she was employed, or there may not have been any at all, for example the NHS just pays X for all employees and locums who are working to be covered.

I find it unlikely she paid a fixed amount into a pension fund that belonged to the NHS, a company she no longer worked for but did locum work for, that's like me working for Microsoft as a contractor for odd weeks of the year but me paying Microsoft regular monthly payment contributions.

AIUI she paid a fixed amount in for each day she worked. This is why I'm suggesting they should either remove death in service for locums/ charge a monthly fee / tattoo it on a locums forehead they aren't covered. I suspect they do none of these and will end up paying. Call me a cynic.

[NibblyPig]

which is why the pension fund which was taking her money should adjust their offering. I'm not sure the lady was aware she wasn't insured.

Maybe, for all we know the 'pension fund' payments may have been based on the number of days she worked, i.e. she only paid for days she was employed, or there may not have been any at all, for example the NHS just pays X for all employees and locums who are working to be covered.

I find it unlikely she paid a fixed amount into a pension fund that belonged to the NHS, a company she no longer worked for but did locum work for, that's like me working for Microsoft as a contractor for odd weeks of the year but me paying Microsoft regular monthly payment contributions.

[AtW]

So what happens next - payment only if you died actually working at the time, not on your lunch break?

[SueEllen]

Or maybe the forms were written in legal rather than English?

Insurance is great - until you want it to pay out...

Legal English is English and while the Sainsbury's employee may be expected to not understand the doctor should.

Also after the pension mis-selling pensions providers are very careful in making you read/look like you are reading their information.

They force you to have meetings and take the booklets away before you can sign up.

[BrilloPad]

There was an article a few months ago about a Sainsburys employee who joined the wrong pension fund then died with children who needed support.

I think the entire problem is many people are too thick and/or too lazy to read and understand when they aren't covered.

Or maybe the forms were written in legal rather than English?

Insurance is great - until you want it to pay out...

[SueEllen]

which is why the pension fund which was taking her money should adjust their offering. I'm not sure the lady was aware she wasn't insured.

There was an article a few months ago about a Sainsburys employee who joined the wrong pension fund then died with children who needed support.

I think the entire problem is many people are too thick and/or too lazy to read and understand when they aren't covered.

[vetran]

The obvious issue here is what happens if you locum for one day a year, should you get coverage for the entire year? What about if you locum for three months, take 3 months off, then kark it on the last day of that holiday? I reckon it's fine to pay out for people that are actually working for you within a contract, including weekends, and likewise not pay out if there is no contract. So I don't see a problem.

Life insurance isn't crazy expensive, and as a contractor, it's one of our necessary business expenses (if you have a family etc.).

Heck it's something you should get as a permie, and if it's not a benefit, go out and buy it yourself. Obviously again, only if you think you need it.

People need to take responsibility.

which is why the pension fund which was taking her money should adjust their offering. I'm not sure the lady was aware she wasn't insured.

[AtW]

So taking a day off, even if in a contract, is now considered between contracts. Makes no sense...

It makes perfect sense if you are the insurance company that would otherwise have to pay out millions...

[NibblyPig]

The obvious issue here is what happens if you locum for one day a year, should you get coverage for the entire year? What about if you locum for three months, take 3 months off, then kark it on the last day of that holiday? I reckon it's fine to pay out for people that are actually working for you within a contract, including weekends, and likewise not pay out if there is no contract. So I don't see a problem.

Life insurance isn't crazy expensive, and as a contractor, it's one of our necessary business expenses (if you have a family etc.).

Heck it's something you should get as a permie, and if it's not a benefit, go out and buy it yourself. Obviously again, only if you think you need it.

People need to take responsibility.

[vetran]

Reading between the lines she was taking a day off between contracts and hence wasn't covered. I'd say a locum is a contractor and shouldn't be covered by death in service at all by the NHS.

in which case don't let her contribute to the pension. Or make it really clear there is no death in service and reduce contributions accordingly. The death in service is part of the pension benefits that she paid for.

Easiest is to offer Death in service premium and then when they turn it down the insurance company is in the clear.

[BigRed]

Seems too arbitrary to me, they should just charge a monthly fee for Locums death in service.

Reading between the lines she was taking a day off between contracts and hence wasn't covered. I'd say a locum is a contractor and shouldn't be covered by death in service at all by the NHS.

[vetran]

does seem like the pension company needs to be leant upon.

Seems too arbitrary to me, they should just charge a monthly fee for Locums death in service.