Reply to: Graduates, graduates, who will buy my lovely graduates?

[DimPrawn]

Problem is I have a degree which due to advances in our understanding of science is now obsolete.

You have a degree in Global Warming?

[original PM]

Some of the more intelligent ones go on and find that the job they want could have been done as an apprentice so they apply.

The degree is useless at that time but if they stick it out and want to become management in future the degree isn't wasted.

There are quite a few employers who don't take on staff for some roles particularly management ones without a degree.

Yes very true.

Problem is I have a degree which due to advances in our understanding of science is now obsolete.

So why is it of value now?

[SueEllen]

Yeah but arts/social science students are really just forward paying into the dole they will receive when they graduate and realise they spent the last 3 years doing nothing of value.

Should cover the payments till they got that burger flipping job.

Some of the more intelligent ones go on and find that the job they want could have been done as an apprentice so they apply.

The degree is useless at that time but if they stick it out and want to become management in future the degree isn't wasted.

There are quite a few employers who don't take on staff for some roles particularly management ones without a degree.

[Zero Liability]

A student should be assessing prospective earning potential (i.e. the marginal benefit to them of doing the degree) rather than just what it costs the uni. That said, who is going to argue that a medical degree and most STEM degrees don't offer considerably better ROI? I think if you do an arts degree at unis like Oxbridge or LSE, though, you're paying for the connections and brand name of the uni, and that may significantly increase your earning power later down the line.

Doing a degree for the privilege of being the most educated burger flipper at McDs must feel special.

[original PM]

Not made up.

I've heard similar figures lots of times since fees went up to 9K

If you do a STEM subject you get your moneys worth. (Ok you break even with Maths like subjects where labs are limited.)

If you do Arts or Social Sciences then they are ripping you off. It actually costs more than 2K per student but less than 9K.

Yeah but arts/social science students are really just forward paying into the dole they will receive when they graduate and realise they spent the last 3 years doing nothing of value.

Should cover the payments till they got that burger flipping job.

[SueEllen]

relatively speaking medicine is a lot cheaper than an arts degree for what a student gets - at oxford the medicine course costs the uni about 30k/year/student (5 days per week contact time, lots of equipment and labs etc) but they're paying the same (9k) fees as a history degree costs the uni about 2k/year/student (6 hours per week contact time plus lots of reading)

source: numbers probably made up by a friend who's just finished oxford med course

Not made up.

I've heard similar figures lots of times since fees went up to 9K

If you do a STEM subject you get your moneys worth. (Ok you break even with Maths like subjects where labs are limited.)

If you do Arts or Social Sciences then they are ripping you off. It actually costs more than 2K per student but less than 9K.

[PurpleGorilla]

We need more trades people, we need more houses. It's getting ridiculous now.....trying to find cheap off plan property for my BTL portfolio

Ah yes, the mythical portfolio, and the mythical mansion.

I turned up at my client today on my Pegasus.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y46oltbjpv...ellerophon.jpg

[DimPrawn]

An ex-esteemed customer of my acquaintance tried producing electronic stuff but has now given that up and is on a course that leads to him becoming a carpenter.

Good luck to him.

We need more trades people, we need more houses. It's getting ridiculous now.....trying to find cheap off plan property for my BTL portfolio

[pr1]

Engineering, medicine, bio-chemistry should all be free.

relatively speaking medicine is a lot cheaper than an arts degree for what a student gets - at oxford the medicine course costs the uni about 30k/year/student (5 days per week contact time, lots of equipment and labs etc) but they're paying the same (9k) fees as a history degree costs the uni about 2k/year/student (6 hours per week contact time plus lots of reading)

source: numbers probably made up by a friend who's just finished oxford med course

[eek]

But a lower hourly minimum wage... Come on!

I believe they are paid for the hours in training (will need to check that)...

[PurpleGorilla]

An apprentice is unlikely to be working a 35 hour week. Chances are 15 hours or so if it are spent doing training (looking at the decent schemes I've seen).

As such it's probably fair that they are paid less. A lot do however seem to be taking the absolute Mickey though

But a lower hourly minimum wage... Come on!

[eek]

I will say it until my dying breath... Degrees should be funded by need (of society). Engineering, medicine, bio-chemistry should all be free. If you study homeopathy you pay. Apprenticeships are great, but the pay needs looking at. Honest pay for honest work.

Why does a younger person get a lower minimum wage. Age discrimination.

An apprentice is unlikely to be working a 35 hour week. Chances are 15 hours or so if it are spent doing training (looking at the decent schemes I've seen).

As such it's probably fair that they are paid less. A lot do however seem to be taking the absolute Mickey though

[PurpleGorilla]

Graduates, graduates, who will buy my lovely graduates?

I will say it until my dying breath... Degrees should be funded by need (of society). Engineering, medicine, bio-chemistry should all be free. If you study homeopathy you pay. Apprenticeships are great, but the pay needs looking at. Honest pay for honest work.

Why does a younger person get a lower minimum wage. Age discrimination.

[SueEllen]

Like most of Labour's policies designed to increase social mobility, packing people into university has had the opposite effect. Mickey Mouse courses were invented, Uni's were funded and O/A level standards steamrolled to pave the way. Result: a generation of graduates working at McDonalds, while the non grads make a much better living as as plaserers, roofers, fitters, drivers, apprentices, entrepreneurs...

Well least we have degree qualified barbers, tailors and cobblers.

The fact that someone gets a "degree" in an arts or textiles subject then comes out and does an apprenticeship shows how good our system is......

[d000hg]

lefties believe everyone should earn in the top 5% (excluding MP's of course who should earn much more) as many n the top 5% have degrees we need more people with degrees

I thought lefties thought the top 5% earned too much, and that MPs should earn the average wage.