Reply to: Skills shortages

[sal]

SaaS is the next big thing they hope will replace a lot of people in IT, I think that is more of a threat than ICTs in the longterm

This is true only partially. SaaS only means that the work will be performed by SaaS provider instead of in-house team, but someone need to "man the guns" in any case. Yes automation is on the rise but so does the volume of data and the number of servers/services/applications each company uses. The average number of servers has probably increased ten fold since the virtualization boom not 10 years ago. Internet and e-mail is a must even for a kebab shop and the explosion of mobile devices as phones and tablets demands it's own infrastructure.

There always have been unemployed people including IT bods and engineers, but it's mostly due to geographical distribution of jobs. And if someone from the north or Wales is unwilling to uproot or long-distance commute 300-400 miles to London/SE to get the job, the EE/Asian guy/gal will happily fly thousands of miles to take his place.

[LondonManc]

SaaS is the next big thing they hope will replace a lot of people in IT, I think that is more of a threat than ICTs in the longterm

It was meant to be five years ago but never happened. Never seen a SaaS carry out a successful pareto workshop or build a good working relationship with senior management.

[MrMarkyMark]

Not to mention that off-shoring often involve the bottom of the barrel people from the EE/Asia as lower cost is the main driving factor which even worsens the gap in skills.

Agreed, we tend to see the worse of it via <Enter Large Offshore Provider Here>.
In fact we had an instance last year where we were pretty sure the guy that remotely did the interview, was not the same guy we eventually got working for us offshore.

It amazes me how people that never lived in EE/Asia brand the people there inferior, less educated and lower skilled, based on a stereotype and not much less.

Having spent a lot of time in India and having lived in Bangkok I would agree with this in principle. However, in India the chain of command / caste system has a lot to answer for. There the management completely rule the roost, often insisting something be done in a sub optimal way.

Near shoring brings its own problems, competition is high and the workforce is highly mobilised. People tend to treat perm more like contract moving every 6-12 months.

[MicrosoftBob]

SaaS is the next big thing they hope will replace a lot of people in IT, I think that is more of a threat than ICTs in the longterm

[suityou01]

Industry never learns. Since I've been in this game the whole offshoring thing rears its head with pendulous predictability. While on the one hand I think anyone that grows up in India, against the odds gets a first class education and can learn to speak a foreign language and have the gumption to get over here and earn deserves our respect, there are the odd few who give the ICT guys a bad name.

The real problem comes from the likes of TCS, who will hire one local guy who knows what he's doing and then place a half dozen offshore bodies around him to try and soak up his knowledge without having to train their own staff. The smell of greed is overwhelming, the way they treat their staff is appalling.

I find fault with the big consultancies, not the individuals.

[zemoxyl]

These numpties banging on about engineering skills shortages need to have their heads read. In 13 years of contracting in London, I've never known a time where there were so many skilled engineers out of work. The last thing this market needs is more unemployed engineers.

I've heard this 'skills shortage' guff for nigh on 40 years. There's a shortage of Ph.D. educated scientists and engineers around Cambridge with numerous positions offering £35-45K. I won't give a link and give them publicity.
Any old timer engineers I know still in the game have fled to Switzerland where they get a living wage. Switzerland !

As for women ? Jeez there's no shortage of women practitioners in law.medicine and accountancy. I think the term 'stable environment' might have something to do with it. As for cajoling people into doing stuff not of their own volition : I do wish these talking heads would STFU and let people choose for themselves. Not to mention the fact that a proper engineering course starts with a 4-year M.Eng degree and £60K worth of debt.

[MicrosoftBob]

Extrapolation from a sample size of 1.

I agree that Brits work some of the longest hours in Western Europe.

The original quote was for Eastern Europe/Asia.

I can only comment on the Indians I have worked with. But they have googled for longer hours for a lot less money.

FTFY

[BrilloPad]

And the French are still more productive than us even after all getting drunk at lunchtime.

Except their police.

French border Police activate Bat-Signal and piss off home

“There is only so much one can do,” said Commanding Officer, Martin Du Creife.

“We had done all we could; we had looked at all of the migrants, sighed a bit, told them to ‘shoo’, and none of that worked.”

“We considered calling in the French army, but to be honest that’s more of a paradox than an actual thing.”

[VectraMan]

Brits work some of the longest hours in Europe.

And the French are still more productive than us even after all getting drunk at lunchtime.

[BrilloPad]

What a load of twaddle. Coming from the last 2 years I've seen projects regularly work 10-12 hours (and weekends).

Brits work some of the longest hours in Europe.

Extrapolation from a sample size of 1.

I agree that Brits work some of the longest hours in Western Europe.

The original quote was for Eastern Europe/Asia.

I can only comment on the Indians I have worked with. But they have worked longer hours for a lot less money.

[cojak]

too expensive - british people generally demand to be paid more to work less hard than eastern european/asian equivalents, doesn't make sense commercially

What a load of twaddle. Coming from the last 2 years I've seen projects regularly work 10-12 hours (and weekends).

Brits work some of the longest hours in Europe.

[BrilloPad]

These numpties banging on about engineering skills shortages need to have their heads read.

In 13 years of contracting in London, I've never known a time where there were so many skilled engineers out of work.

The last thing this market needs is more unemployed engineers.

Employers would love to get rates down to 3rd world levels.

They need more speedboats to water ski behind.

[sal]

A lot of people around here are trying to compare UK contractors skills to East Europe/Asia permies skills, obviously the later are worse. Not to mention that off-shoring often involve the bottom of the barrel people from the EE/Asia as lower cost is the main driving factor which even worsens the gap in skills.

If you on the other hand you compare UK permies (which are the predominant work force) to EE/Asia permies working in their respective countries you might find that the skill gap is gone or even reversed.

It amazes me how people that never lived in EE/Asia brand the people there inferior, less educated and lower skilled, based on a stereotype and not much less.

[alphadog]

These numpties banging on about engineering skills shortages need to have their heads read.

In 13 years of contracting in London, I've never known a time where there were so many skilled engineers out of work.

The last thing this market needs is more unemployed engineers.

[MrMarkyMark]

OK, we will agree to disagree .
Hopefully you were playing a slight devils advocate, as this is general after all .