Reply to: Benefits of staying in the EU

[Platypus]

or this which I am currently reading

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trouble-Euro...2664068&sr=1-1

This is an interesting analysis from the LSE, weighing up the pros and cons.

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea022.pdf

Thanks guys.

I'll have a read of the free PDF first, although after skimming it, it doesn't seem to address what the benefits of leaving the EU might be: i.e. access to other markets. The whole debate, for me, isn't about staying or going, it's will be be better off in or out, in the short term and then the longer term.

Thus far, I'm of the opinion we'll be worse off for a few years (<5), then better off.

EDIT: I've just bought the Bootle book too

[BlasterBates]

This is an interesting analysis from the LSE, weighing up the pros and cons.

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea022.pdf

[DodgyAgent]

or this which I am currently reading

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trouble-Euro...2664068&sr=1-1

[Platypus]

Shame this thread has degenerated into slagging.

For anyone who is really interested in this topic, may I suggest
Au Revoir, Europe: What If Britain Left The EU?: Amazon.co.uk: David Charter: 9781849541213: Books

[BlasterBates]

How disingenuous of you to spin a practical suggestion from Cameron and Osborne into saying that the UK wants more integration. The Uk wants the single currency to work it doesn't mean that it wants to be part of it.

It's not me who mentioned EU integration, you can reread my comments, no mention of EU integration. You interpreted EU integration. It's Eurozone integration.

Of course there's no EU integration, but the backbenchers are jumping and down like yo-yos-

[DodgyAgent]

Eurozone integration, which is what the conference is about.

Backbenchers replace the word Eurozone with EU and then shout hysterically.
David Cameron prepared to wield UK veto in eurozone negotiations | World news | The Guardian





Sounds like support to me.

After the 2008 crisis don't think anyone is against this.

How disingenuous of you to spin a practical suggestion from Cameron and Osborne into saying that the UK wants more integration. The Uk wants the single currency to work it doesn't mean that it wants to be part of it.

[BlasterBates]

The EU backbenchers are right and secondly in what way are Cameron and Osborne pushing for more EU integration?

Eurozone integration, which is what the conference is about.

Backbenchers replace the word Eurozone with EU and then shout hysterically.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-negotiations

An integrated financial framework that would move towards a single European banking supervision. Britain is pleased that the paper says this needs to be done in a way that preserves the "unity and integrity of the single market".

Britain favours a banking union for the eurozone.

Sounds like support to me.

After the 2008 crisis don't think anyone is against this.

[DodgyAgent]

Well you're right in the sense that his ant-EU backbenchers will be using this as a cludgeon, oooh "integration superstate" etc. The fact is Osbourne and Cameron are pushing for more Eurozone integration.

Everyone agrees the Eurozone needs some fiscal rules to stop countries running up debts.

The EU backbenchers are right and secondly in what way are Cameron and Osborne pushing for more EU integration?

[BlasterBates]

Well, the lead story in the Guardian seems to suggest it's a blow to Cameron's prospects of renegotiation.

Well you're right in the sense that his ant-EU backbenchers will be using this as a cludgeon, oooh "integration superstate" etc. The fact is Osbourne and Cameron are pushing for more Eurozone integration.

Everyone agrees the Eurozone needs some fiscal rules to stop countries running up debts.

[Gumbo Robot]

These proposals are for the Eurozone and since Britain isn't in the Eurozone they have no impact.

It's about introducing debt brakes to stop countries "going Greece".

Well, the lead story in the Guardian seems to suggest it's a blow to Cameron's prospects of renegotiation.

[VectraMan]

Odd.

When I've come into the UK by plane, ferry or train my passport has always been checked.

I have noticed though they are more thorough on the train than by plane, but only if you are a frequent traveller, or on the ferry.

Things have changed in the last few years. They certainly used to wave most people through as long as you waved the right coloured looking passport, but recently I've always been checked. I went to France through the tunnel a couple of weeks ago, and coming back there was about a 15 minute wait for the apparently non-existent border controls. They've got big scary looking barriers and only let two cars at a time approach the booth, and the officer had a good long look at my passport, asked me to remove my sunglasses and scanned it before letting me go. Kippers go on about "we can't control our borders", but clearly we can and do.

Stopping immigration is an entirely different issue. Unless you want us to become North Korea and not let people in and out of the country at all, be it for a holiday, or business, or whatever, then there's always going to be people who get in and stay illegally. This is how it always was, and is nothing to do with our EU membership.

[BlasterBates]

These proposals are for the Eurozone and since Britain isn't in the Eurozone they have no impact.

It's about introducing debt brakes to stop countries "going Greece".

[TestMangler]

Of course the website isn't lying but it goes to show that the Border Agency are obviously not doing their job properly. In other words they could be allowing illegal immigrants / criminals / terrorists / etc. through a legitimate channel when they could be stopped. For all we know you could be one and theoretically the law was broken when your passport was not reviewed

No tulipe ! Really ?

[Gumbo Robot]

On a different note, if Cameron doesn't get his EU treaty reforms, will he be able to weasel his way out of holding a referendum? He has always stated that it would be a vote on whether or not to stay in the EU after terms of membership had been renegotiated.

I only ask because it seems that the latest Franco-German proposals to tighter eurozone integration without any change to the treaty are a big setback to Cameron's plans for renegotiation.

[SueEllen]

I've also had my passport checked entering the UK by various means, but the point is that it doesn't ALWAYS happen. The two examples I gave above are examples of when it didn't on plenty of occasions. I make these trips once or twice a year (particularly the Assen one). Maybe the government website is lying LOL. Really ? Do you think that might be possible ? Really ?

Odd.

When I've come into the UK by plane, ferry or train my passport has always been checked.

I have noticed though they are more thorough on the train than by plane, but only if you are a frequent traveller, or on the ferry.