Reply to: We've all been there

[xoggoth]

Unfortunately the debate on immigration has always been this "migrants good versus migrants bad" idiocy and look what it has given us. While the Chinese and Indians have generally been pretty good, any benefit from them has been outweighed by those from other nations who have been a disaster. In addition to proper checks on individuals our governments should be monitoring performance of those from specific nations and setting stricter or laxer controls accordingly.

[Roger Mellie]

We just need to push up house prices more, and then sell them to each other endlessley, to take top position again in the economic growth battle.

You raised a good point there. Cameron is probably the first PM to face the question that is "how do we prop up the boomer generation". House prices is one way to do it, a transfer of wealth from the young to the old. The next step, because the British haven't reproduced on the same scale as the boomer generation's parents, is open door immigration. We need more people here which might equal more people paying tax - unfortunately we're paying them more in Tax Credits which are on an exodus out of the country. The boomer generation are still a huge voting bloc and the govt. of the day will not dare insult them. There will be no huge house building scheme until all the boomers are dead but then there is the problem of placating those who bought the boomer properties and expect the same 'profits' which the boomers benefited from.

I would imagine that before all of that, we'll have our own debt crisis. Currently we're 1.5 trillion in debt, but with liabilities that figure is closer to 5 trillion. We're fubar'd, the EU knows it and the politcal class know it too. At the moment, politics is a game of who can kick the can furthest down the cul-de-sac.

[xoggoth]

Unlike some previous migrations, those from Poland and Hungary are probably not a major problem crime-wise. These two links suggest that % of foreign nationals in UK prisons, aka more serious offences, is about in proportion to population:

Since then the proportion of foreign nationals in prisons has fallen slightly to 13% by June 2011, remaining at that level since then.

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...34/SN04334.pdf

In 1951 there were 1.9 million non-UK born residents in England and Wales (4.5% of the usually resident population) and by 2011 this had increased to 7.5 million (13% of the resident population).

Non-UK Born Population of England and Wales Quadrupled Between 1951 and 2011 - ONS

However, swapping such comparisons shows the ridiculous all or nothing nature of this debate. It should not be about whether immigrants as a whole are good or bad but about how to allow in the good ones and keep out the bad ones. We are stuck with our low performers but there is no reason to take in low performers from other countries unless it is under a reciprocal arrangement. Immigrants should not just be as good as the British, they should be far better! If they are not, there is no benefit to us in their presence. They may increase the GDP but if they increase the population similarly then nobody is any better off, we just face extra pressures on our resources.

Crime by minorities also tends to be more difficult and expensive to prosecute for obvious reasons.

[Roger Mellie]

One of the benefits of the EU is that women are less likely to be raped.

Crime doesn't rise in high immigration areas

Sweden: Rape Capital of the West

[BlasterBates]

You still exercising 'Freedom to be offended". Do you normally call for folk to be banned from this forum? How bigoted of you.

One of the benefits of the EU is that women are less likely to be raped.

Crime doesn't rise in high immigration areas

[Roger Mellie]

touche

You still exercising 'Freedom to be offended". Do you normally call for folk to be banned from this forum? How bigoted of you.

[BlasterBates]

We just need to push up house prices more, and then sell them to each other endlessley, to take top position again in the economic growth battle.

touche

[DimPrawn]

statistics speak for themselves

Eurozone economic growth beat the UK in the first quarter of 2015 | City A.M.

With a BREXIT on the cards looks like the UK will be accelerating down the toilet.

We just need to push up house prices more, and then sell them to each other endlessley, to take top position again in the economic growth battle.

[Roger Mellie]

statistics speak for themselves

Eurozone economic growth beat the UK in the first quarter of 2015 | City A.M.

With a BREXIT on the cards looks like the UK will be accelerating down the toilet.

Why? Surely an entire continent should be able to out do a Island nation, but why has it taken them so long and isn't the growth the result of the ECB recently printing a tulip load of money?

Why do you hate the UK? I really cannot understand why people like you seem to think we're useless on our own?

[BlasterBates]

statistics speak for themselves

Eurozone economic growth beat the UK in the first quarter of 2015 | City A.M.

With a BREXIT on the cards looks like the UK will be accelerating down the toilet.

[Roger Mellie]

NOt very well actually, down the drain

BBC - History - British History in depth: Thatcherism and the End of the Post-War Consensus



The Conservative government joined the EC to stop the economic decline.

...and back down the drain is exactly where the UK is heading when it leaves the EU.

Utter tripe, the Heath Govt joined the common market based on their own idealistic and non-war experience views of the damage and destruction WW2 brought to Europe. The plebs which pushed us into the Single Market may have been 'veterans' but they only saw the war AFTER hostilities ended. Read up on Heath's biography, the man was forward thinking with regards to Hitler (being the only British future politician to witness Hitler at the Nuremburg Rallies) but he was dreadfully idealistic and didn't realise that Nuclear Weapons alone would prevent another continental war. ALSO, his negotiations (after the French told us to F off a number of times) were done in secret. We have no idea what was voted for during that referendum, one which has resulted in near political union.

As for the economic decline, you don't seem to realise that it was Labour under Clement Attlee which nationalised the industries, and for what? It was a screw up from the get go. We became the sick man of Europe because of what Labour did after the war, and the immediate winters after nationalisation showed very early on what a BIG mistake nationalisation was to the country. And if you want to know who kicked off immigration, it was Labour after the war with the 1948 British Nationality Act. Labour claimed we had an unskilled labour shortage, yet at the same time they sent home 400,000 German POWs...people who wanted to see Germany rule over Europe.

At least learn your history before quoting nonsense from the Progressive Beeb.

[BlasterBates]

'There will be more wealth confiscation, without a doubt' – Saxo Bank's Lars Christensen - Telegraph

You're right be independent and have your own currency....

like Argentina

http://www.newsweek.com/retirees-set...d-fight-255553

[DimPrawn]

Iceland:

2008

Not sure I would want to live in a country where all my savings go down the drain.

I think I would prefer to live somewhere, where a European Union will step in and bail us out.

'There will be more wealth confiscation, without a doubt' – Saxo Bank's Lars Christensen - Telegraph

[BlasterBates]

Iceland:

2008

Not sure I would want to live in a country where all my savings go down the drain.

I think I would prefer to live somewhere, where a European Union will step in and bail us out.

[BlasterBates]

Just how we coped before this bollocks is beyond me. I mean, just how do Iceland cope?

.

NOt very well actually, down the drain

BBC - History - British History in depth: Thatcherism and the End of the Post-War Consensus

Economic decline

During the 1960s and 1970s, the main parties competed to reverse Britain’s relative economic decline. There was a growing awareness that the economic league tables showed that Britain was at the wrong end for figures regarding strikes, productivity, inflation, economic growth and rising living standards.

Virtually all European countries, except for Britain, had so-called 'economic miracles'. Britain was often described as the 'sick man of Europe'. The targets for blame included: failure to invest in new plant and machinery; restrictive working practices and outdated attitudes on the shop floor ('us and them'); amateurish management; loss of markets; and rise of competition.

The Conservative government joined the EC to stop the economic decline.

...and back down the drain is exactly where the UK is heading when it leaves the EU.