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Previously on "The dumbing down of the UK"

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  • VectraMan
    replied
    Originally posted by DodgyAgent View Post
    Nonsense. The EU has little or no democratic accountability
    What were the elections about last year then?

    Just as we can vote out an incumbent government so should we be free to vote ourselves out of the EU.
    Well if UKIP would man up and say "we will take Britain out the EU", then we are. Vote for UKIP if you want out of the EU.

    Leave a comment:


  • DodgyAgent
    replied
    Originally posted by VectraMan View Post
    Which is true of just about any government decision.

    People moan that we didn't have a referendum on joining the EU, although we sort of did, so you could argue it's fair that we don't need one to leave. Personally I think a referendum is a terrible idea regardless of the pros and cons of the EU, as it creates enormous uncertainty. It might be better if we know that a UKIP government on May the whatever'th means leaving the EU and not have to arse about having another tedious debate in the lead up to another tedious referendum that probably won't settle the issue anyway.
    Nonsense. The EU has little or no democratic accountability and it is pushing ever closer to consuming the democratic nation states within it. Just as we can vote out an incumbent government so should we be free to vote ourselves out of the EU.

    Leave a comment:


  • VectraMan
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    Since you only have to get around 35-42% of the vote to be a majority government under FPTP, which means the vast majority of the electorate didn't vote for you, you could argue the other way.
    Which is true of just about any government decision.

    People moan that we didn't have a referendum on joining the EU, although we sort of did, so you could argue it's fair that we don't need one to leave. Personally I think a referendum is a terrible idea regardless of the pros and cons of the EU, as it creates enormous uncertainty. It might be better if we know that a UKIP government on May the whatever'th means leaving the EU and not have to arse about having another tedious debate in the lead up to another tedious referendum that probably won't settle the issue anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    Um, if you vote for a party who says "we're going to leave the EU as a core policy", it's not undemocratic when they do just that.
    Since you only have to get around 35-42% of the vote to be a majority government under FPTP, which means the vast majority of the electorate didn't vote for you, you could argue the other way.

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  • d000hg
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    One of the things UKIP, anti-EU Tories etc are claiming is that the EU is undemocratic. So just to withdraw without asking the electorate's first in their eyes is undemocratic.
    Um, if you vote for a party who says "we're going to leave the EU as a core policy", it's not undemocratic when they do just that.

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  • MicrosoftBob
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post

    What probably would happen if people voted " No" to withdrawing from the EU is they would hold referendums until they got the "right" answer.
    Something the EU has done repeatedly, most notably in Ireland

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  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    What's the point of being called UKIP if you then offer a referendum where people can choose to remain in the EU? What no earth would they do then?

    Surely their policy should be "leave the EU" not "hold a referendum".
    One of the things UKIP, anti-EU Tories etc are claiming is that the EU is undemocratic. So just to withdraw without asking the electorate's first in their eyes is undemocratic.

    What probably would happen if people voted " No" to withdrawing from the EU is they would hold referendums until they got the "right" answer.

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  • scooterscot
    replied
    Originally posted by VectraMan View Post
    Scottish National Party. Can't really claim they're about anything other than making Scotland a nation on its own.
    Refreshing to have the interests of the electorate put first.

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  • VectraMan
    replied
    Scottish National Party. Can't really claim they're about anything other than making Scotland a nation on its own.

    Leave a comment:


  • d000hg
    replied
    Don't the SNP more generally represent a "Scotland first" approach rather than just "independence, then what?"

    Leave a comment:


  • VectraMan
    replied
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    What's the point of being called UKIP if you then offer a referendum where people can choose to remain in the EU? What on earth would they do then?
    Having their whole raison d'être rejected by the very people they claim to represent doesn't seem to have stopped the SNP.

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  • darmstadt
    replied
    Originally posted by darmstadt View Post
    Who knows, they chop and change their non-existent policies on a weekly basis

    Leave a comment:


  • d000hg
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    Nah.

    EU referendum and out of EU. In meantime restrictions on EU nationals.

    Though Farage would have to place these restrictions on his wife.
    What's the point of being called UKIP if you then offer a referendum where people can choose to remain in the EU? What no earth would they do then?

    Surely their policy should be "leave the EU" not "hold a referendum".

    Leave a comment:


  • darmstadt
    replied
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    So UKIP have given up on "leave the EU" now?
    Who knows, they chop and change their non-existent policies on a weekly basis

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    So UKIP have given up on "leave the EU" now?
    Nah.

    EU referendum and out of EU. In meantime restrictions on EU nationals.

    Though Farage would have to place these restrictions on his wife.

    Leave a comment:

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