Reply to: Alexander Mann!!

[realityhack]

My worst time was working for local govt. direct when I was freelancing - 90 days typical!

[decode]

Are there any good agencies? I guess that's like asking are there any good politicians.

I've been impressed with Hays IT. Payment two or three days after I invoice them. No fuss, no mistakes. The way it should be.

[decode]

Let's just say I wonder how often AM get paid by the client.
I wouldn't like to think they bank the money and hold on to the interest?

It's the same with these new rules on Holiday pay from Umbrellas (luckily mine doesn't do this)
But I want all the money due, and as soon as possible

Cap Gemini were paying AM weekly. I know because I worked on the system that made the payments.

[scooterscot]

I had my obligatory two & a bit weeks leave over the Christmas period then the moment I return to the UK I get the flu, today is my first day back. I’m fine with this of course these things happen. So what there’s a month of earnings missing from the business account but who cares we prepare for these things don’t we? So when I hear this one month in arrears pay business is causing problems I think Mr you need to get your affairs in order!

For those of you that have affairs in order Kenya airways are doing a good deal on business class at the moment

[Cowboy Bob]

Bah, I agree with the disguised employee thing. Last year I did a direct contract and they wanted to pay on delivery. So, I worked for 6 months without payment and then invoiced. Finally, I waited 28 days to finally get paid. That's how businesses normally operate.

And this is what agencies are for - factoring invoices before the client has paid for the project. They stop you having to work for months without getting paid.

I agree that 7 weeks is a bit harsh for someone going from permie to contract, but then again it does seem like an awful lot of people want to earn more money but with none of the risk. Contractors are supposed to be self-employed. Anyone know any other trades where the business gets paid monthly by their clients? Thought not. In other words, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. 7 weeks is perfectly reasonable when taken into context with other self-employed people.

[~Craig~]

Just been sent a draft contract and it now looks like payment is 30 days after receipt of invoice. I'm guessing that depending on when you catch end of the month it could be up to 60 days before you receive the first payment?

not so bad once you get going but for those people making the jump from permie it could put a strain on things

[lukemg]

Part of the game for me and got to be good IR35 wise. Sounds like a lot of disguised employees on here. Yes, negotiate a better payment deal if possible, it used to be normal to get paid within 2-3 days of submitting invoice/timesheet at the end of the month. This has slipped in recent times. If it was a small agency I would be more worried about potential cash going missing.

[bobhope]

Are there any good agencies? I guess that's like asking are there any good politicians.

[mcquiggd]

Tends to be "email friday (if your project manager gets round to approving it), wait until tuesday as you have had no confirmation, ring up and get no answer, wait for the friday to see if any more is in the bank account, ring up monday and see if you can find out if they received the email (you dont get a read receipt".

alexander mann are used by atos origin - need I say more.

[Joe Black]

Currently on something similar to this, i.e. won't be paid for August until first week Oct, but then thats the deal when you generally don't have an agency involved and are considered simply another supplier. Get paid more but don't have the niceties mcquiggd mentioned about faxing Friday, money in bank following week.

In the case of AM though, I think I'd agree with two points raised:

1) that if they're charging a hefty premium for your work then it's not unreasonable to push for flexibility on that point
2) if you're expected to be treated as just another supplier (especially if a first time one), you have every right to question their liquidity and credit check them

[OrangeHopper]

Permies only get paid on a 4 weekly cycle (and worse at Christmas).

60 days from day 1 to first cheque then every month thereafter was the expectation and could represent the best of payers.

[mcquiggd]

As i said earlier in the thread, 30 days AFTER you start work, you can invoice for that period. Then they amble around a bit and take a week to process it. Eventually, they pay you, once they have nabbed a nice chunk of interest on your money.

After the first month, you CAN invoice weekly - as I remember you have to get your invoice in for tuesday lunchtime, get paid by BACS, eventually.

[BoredBloke]

I thought that one of the benefits of using an agency was to speed up payment. Part of their margin was to provide a very expensive factoring service. When I worked direct to GSK, they had a 30 day rule and paid after that. So if the agency is simply deducting their cut and passing the cash on, then they should be reducing their margin.

On my current contract I got caught by this. I managed to get it down by talking to the client. I don't know if AM would do this though. I guess it depends how much the client wants you.

Also this does screw you up. Especially if you have come from a period on the bench, or as I had doen worked on a low paid contract for an extended period. Both of which reduce the funds in your slush fund.

[DaveB]

It is 30 days, AMS told me so today. In other words, start a contract and don't get paid for five weeks. On my last contract I worked with a guy who was with them previously and he had to wait seven weeks. I think it was because he started a week after their month-end. Reasonable or not, that's potentially a lot of money to lose if anything 'goes wrong'.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. Just be glad it's not 30 days from date of invoice as it would be for a commercial supplier.

My agent is the same. I send them my invoice for the previous months work, they pay me between 3-5 days later depending on the status of their payment process when my invoice arrives. They certainly dont get paid in that time scale by the end client.

As for payment up front, CG will try it on if they think they can get away with it. I've worked on sites where they have a presence, it's a bit like rotton cabbage crossed with a sewage farm, and have worked with their management people. They are sharks like all the other big services/consultancy companies. Whether the client is good enough to bend over and get shafted is up to them. I've heard CEO's describing them as raping the their company through the contract terms the got away with.

BTW, the guys who actually do the grunt work for CG are by and large nice guys who do a good job under difficult circumstances. Most of them would leave in a second if they got the chance.

[Lean Dipstick]

30 Days

Well, hang on. 14 days is not unreasonable to ask for, is it?

It is 30 days, AMS told me so today. In other words, start a contract and don't get paid for five weeks. On my last contract I worked with a guy who was with them previously and he had to wait seven weeks. I think it was because he started a week after their month-end. Reasonable or not, that's potentially a lot of money to lose if anything 'goes wrong'.