Reply to: Good job they will pay our pensions.

[zemoxyl]

the UK isn't even part of the Schengen treaty so everyone has to show a passport when entering the country and this recorded. This makes me think that the reason for the high number of illegal immigrants is due to sheer incompetence.

Is it just incompetence or is it wilful incompetence? With a target of 'tens of thousands' to a figure of net migration of 260,000.
Surely no-one is that incompetent?

The cheap labour race to the bottom..........

[SueEllen]

. Maybe the UK Border Agency are just crap which might explain how an island country has the highest level of illegal immigrants in Europe and the UK isn't even part of the Schengen treaty so everyone has to show a passport when entering the country and this recorded. This makes me think that the reason for the high number of illegal immigrants is due to sheer incompetence. Maybe the Identity Cards Act of 2006 shouldn't have been repealed

It's the Home Office now. The UK Border Agency was so crap that the Home Secretary brought its functions back in house and it's still not doing any better....

[SueEllen]

Oh my oh my Swellen, do you just read the Guardian on a sunday morning with your head under the covers?

How many illegal immigrants do we have currently in the system? either under appeal or awol?

And how did they enter if they were non-EU?

Hint - most arrive legally and over stay. The big problem is the Home Office and it's predecessor can't find them....

And the fact that you miss the point re EU migration is expected.

What point? These people are allowed to come here legally and most leave after 5-7 years unless they marry a Brit.

Sooner people like you retire and forget what your name is the better

You have a bloody long time to wait for that.....

[darmstadt]

Oh my oh my Swellen, do you just read the Guardian on a sunday morning with your head under the covers?

How many illegal immigrants do we have currently in the system? either under appeal or awol?

And the fact that you miss the point re EU migration is expected.

Sooner people like you retire and forget what your name is the better

If they're illegal then no one knows how many there are, 1 or 10,000 but of those that are known, then why aren't they being deported? I mean they're illegal so the law says they must go so get rid of them but you can't, currently, get rid of any from the EU and in many cases, the Commonwealth (and remember a lot of those non-Aryan looking types you see daily may just well be here from the Commonwealth) though but you can from practically anywhere else including the USA. Just to help, here's the definition:

Illegal (sometimes termed irregular) immigrants in the UK include those who have:

• entered the UK without authority
• entered with false documents
• overstayed their visas
• worked or studied on a tourist visa/ non-immigrant visa waiver
• entered into forced or fraudulent marriage

Once you've ejected them, then stop them coming back and stop any new ones entering, other countries, although not 100% effective are doing that. Maybe the UK Border Agency are just crap which might explain how an island country has the highest level of illegal immigrants in Europe and the UK isn't even part of the Schengen treaty so everyone has to show a passport when entering the country and this recorded. This makes me think that the reason for the high number of illegal immigrants is due to sheer incompetence. Maybe the Identity Cards Act of 2006 shouldn't have been repealed

[turbowoowoo]

What free for all immigration?

If you are non-EU you need to have a good reason to be in the UK. They can and do turn people down even if they are coming for a holiday to see their grandchildren and have other dependant children living at home.

If you are EU then you can come here like I can go off to France, Spain and German to live and work.

Oh my oh my Swellen, do you just read the Guardian on a sunday morning with your head under the covers?

How many illegal immigrants do we have currently in the system? either under appeal or awol?

And the fact that you miss the point re EU migration is expected.

Sooner people like you retire and forget what your name is the better

[SueEllen]

One in 14 new mothers are maternity tourists: £182m bill for births to short term migrants and visitors | Daily Mail Online

BBC News - Foreigners face more charges to access NHS

The DM uses statistics in a distorted way to make a hysterical headline and ignores the way the statistics are collated. In this case they haven't even bothered to give a link to the statistics so we can see how they were arrived at.

All hospital maternity staff in certain hospitals particularly near airports with international flights have stories to tell about pregnant women taking the p*ss with the NHS. However they none of them say on every shift they do one of these women are there.

Both the BBC and Channel 4 also like showing how corrupt some medical professionals are in the NHS. One went undercover to show GPs putting foreign non-EU people on their list for a few thousand pounds so they could have free access to complex operations. However for each procedure they needed a middle man would accompany the patient to the GPs appointment and charge them money for the visit.

[vetran]

See different areas different policies and different people using the services.

One in 14 new mothers are maternity tourists: £182m bill for births to short term migrants and visitors | Daily Mail Online

so with a birth rate of 700,000 that means 50,000 births are to health tourists.

BBC News - Foreigners face more charges to access NHS

The government says the NHS is one of the most generous systems in the world and is also "open to abuse by those intent on cheating the system".

It does not know how much so-called "health tourism" costs the NHS - estimates range from £12m to £200m a year - but is to carry out an "audit" to work out the extent of the problem.

official figures estimate maternity costs £2,800 for each woman you only need 71,000 births to get to 200m, it is possible women who are likely to have complications may select to come here for better care so the individual cost may be higher.

50,000 * 2.800 = £140 million so apparently we only lost £60 million on other health tourism.

http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content...y-services.pdf

[darmstadt]

Unfortunately the officials didn't realise in lots of developing countries like Pakistan entire villages are blood-related to each other...

Apart from the officials in Norfolk

[SueEllen]

I never said it was prevalent in NHS employees, they seem to have their own problems.

Its funny we start discussing all immigration and you change the subject area to avoid admitting I am right.

How do the illegal immigrants get here considering we are an island and the flights are pre screened?

Oh of course they come across from Italy & Spain, pause at Calais(etc) and then try to jump a lorry to Dover.

How do they come here?

A lot of illegal immigrants in the country come on holiday visas or on student visas.

The government has tackled student visas by getting rid of those bogus colleges but has also in the process deterred some honest students coming to the UK to spend their money on fees that subsidise university courses for UK students.

With the holiday visas the government makes up arbitrary rules to do with where you come from and what you are doing.

So if you are coming to see your new born grandchild plus other toddler grandchild for the first time and also have dependant children at home the UK government can deny you entry. However if you come on a holiday visa, decide you want to stay and are a qualified, experienced nurse you will get help to negotiate the visa system from the care home who wants to employ you.

I remember reading an article under Blair's government where people were denied holiday visas unless they could prove they were blood-related to the people they were coming see. Unfortunately the officials didn't realise in lots of developing countries like Pakistan entire villages are blood-related to each other...

[SueEllen]

Why do you liberals always turn this into a racist argument. Not blaming immigrants at all, blaming the free for all immigration which does have an impact on services. this is a small island which is a very nice place to be and there are lots of not so nice places in the world where people would love to swap places with.

The problem is we shouldn't and cannot sustain open door policies. We need to be selective to who comes in, on grounds of what they can offer the UK on their arrival skills etc or where there is serious refugee problems, we do our duty and take our share.

Not all and sundry!!!

What free for all immigration?

If you are non-EU you need to have a good reason to be in the UK. They can and do turn people down even if they are coming for a holiday to see their grandchildren and have other dependant children living at home.

If you are EU then you can come here like I can go off to France, Spain and German to live and work.

[SueEllen]

My wife was one of two UK born mothers in the local hospital which is huge. The Maternity area there has expanded over the last 16 years.

See different areas different policies and different people using the services.

[turbowoowoo]

You are aware that successive governments have cut back maternity and other services over the years? In fact where I live they were talking about closing down my local hospital's maternity unit or another local hospital's while were near the beginning of this current baby boom.

So you are blaming immigrants for successive governments poor infrastructure planning.

In fact in West London they closed down one of the local A&Es ignoring advice that it would impact all the other hospitals there and increase waiting times and the DM amongst others have found it has.

Why do you liberals always turn this into a racist argument. Not blaming immigrants at all, blaming the free for all immigration which does have an impact on services. this is a small island which is a very nice place to be and there are lots of not so nice places in the world where people would love to swap places with.

The problem is we shouldn't and cannot sustain open door policies. We need to be selective to who comes in, on grounds of what they can offer the UK on their arrival skills etc or where there is serious refugee problems, we do our duty and take our share.

Not all and sundry!!!

[BlasterBates]

The EU would lose out more than the UK.

Mind you, I could not do with my Champagne. Can't we have an exemption for that?

...and German beer

[BrilloPad]

So what you are seriously suggesting is, we cut all trade ties and import nothing at all from the EU ?

The EU would lose out more than the UK.

Mind you, I could not do with my Champagne. Can't we have an exemption for that?

[vetran]

So what you are seriously suggesting is, we cut all trade ties and import nothing at all from the EU ?

No - read my posts again.